Distorted Morality-America's War on Terror

by frankiespeakin 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Who are you?

  wouldn't you be actively involved as a citizen of your own country?
  
  a resounding yes. but that doesn't define me as a patriot (one who loves and
  loyally or zealously support's ones own country)....and in fact, i feel the
  need to avoid that distinction in order to be more honest with myself re:
  the reality of my country's hypocrisy...a higher level of patriotism was
  expressed by bush sr. a few years ago, "i never apologize for my country,
  right or wrong".

  OK Franzy bear with me because this is where I'm confused. When and where did the word patriotism become the property of Bush Sr, or #43 or any one group or ideology. Of course no one is going to constantly agree with everything a current administration does at any given point in time, including one's own party. So are all these people no longer patriots the moment they disagree with the current President? Is #43 considered a patriot? Is Bill Clinton a patriot? If Bill Clinton views himself as a patriot, but you don't, does that mean he's not? What about Al Gore? Were the founding fathers patriots? At what point does one go from a being freedom fighter who thumbs his nose at the system to becoming a patriot and part of the system, like the founding fathers? If a Democrat is elected next year, then are they considered the new patriots?

  If you are citizen of the world does that make you a global or worldy patriot? If yes, then when does that no longer apply? Can someone be a global patriot in a positive sense by donating millions for Aids research, yet be considered a patriot in the negative sense within the US because they are a registered voter within one given party?

  R's hubby
• 

  frankiespeakin

  WAY,

  Good questions grasshopper!
• 

  franzy

  good morning r's hubby
  
  did i say that patriotism had become gb's property? recall that i agreed
  with your first statements to me.
  
  my first comment on this thread was to say that most "patriots" would
  deny that our government commits acts of terrorism. i feel comfortable
  standing by that remark. but you are not "most" patriots. if i am
  reading between the lines correctly, you see yourself as a patriot with
  clear vision. if that is true, i say more power to you.
  
  i see the very definition of the word to be weighted to tip towards
  apologia. towards uncritical acceptance and endorsement. towards a
  "distorted morality". which makes me think of our mindsets as jw's.
  ....that is why i personally don't want to be labelled as a patriot.
  
  
  however, "dissent is patriotic"
  
  peace
  matt
• 

  rassillon

  Hello franzy,

  I don't want to get into a fight with you, I say this in the most respectful way possible.

  I have to agree with WAY.

  AND I would have to ask you where you get that "most" patriots do or don't do the things you claim?

  Do you have any real evidence for making your statement or is it just an opinion?

  I will have to disagree with you or at the very least say that neither of us "really knows".

  I know people who fit your view, I also know many that don't. I feel that you have either created or bought into

  a sterotype which makes this kind of issue easy an US vs THEM thing. When in actuallity issues are rarely that clean cut.

  I for example agree with both sides on some things but never all. I consider my self a patriot. Everyone is so quick to dog the USA about the things that they have done wrong but never about the good that they do. I am talking about the governemnt and the people. Simple fact is that all countries act the same way it is just that the USA is the BIG DOG and it is easy for them to be the target of the little dogs. Just the same as how people claim that big corporations are bad for doing what they are supposed to do, make the most money they can. Viewing a group as a single huge entity as apposed to the individuals who make it up.

  If anyone goes too far to either extreem they can't see things right.

  Too conservative or too liberal. When I talk to most people, they are somewhere in between.

  I am not trying to rag on you or anything I just disagree with your characterization of patriots.

  I won't get into the whole world citizen thing.

  :)
• 

  franzy

  hi rassillon
  
  i'm glad you don't want to fight...
  
  didn't you read that recent gallup poll that interviewed 12,000
  self-professed pattriots? 71% did not agree that the usa
  commits terrorist acts...
  
  ok. i made that up. yes, it's just my opinion, based on my own
  observations to this point in life. if i say "many", or "some",
  then are we able to move past that to addressing the very real
  distorted reality regarding america's war on terrorism?
  
  cheers
  matt
• 

  Who are you?

  Hi Franzy,

  I also agree that "dissent is patriotic" which is why I scratch my head and try to figure why so many dissenters avoid the word like the bubonic plague. No hidden motive, just curious why and when it happened. Anyone else.....please feel free to answer.

  R's hubby
• 

  rassillon

  franzy, glad I didn't offend you :) Yes I agree, there should not be a war on terror. There should be a War with Al Qaeda or extremist muslims or whatever to more define those which have a very real grudge against the USA and its citizens.
  
  AND it should be a WAR not this p***y a** type "war" which is swayed by public opinion. War sucks, it is dirty, bloody, painful, etc...etc... But the only way to win is to destroy your enemy. Many people do not understand what or why war in needed but if someone is intent on killing you or beating you up or taking your stuff you have to stop them or let them do it.
  
  It is the same as if I am out at night and someone comes up and wants to beat me up and take my stuff and no they don't always just leave you alone if you give them what they want. So if I am in this situation I will put a couple of .45s center mass. End of story, peace restored, that trash which leaches off of society bothers no one ever again. I do my best to avoid bad situations but if inspite of that some lowlife wants to still mess with me I am taking them out, period end of story. No room for retaliation no law suits just self defense.
  
  I know I a lot of people think I am evil but you have not seen what I have nor know what I know. Fact is there are people out their who enjoy hurting others and they are useless pathetic and the only good they will ever do is feeding the worms.
  
  :)