THE WTS: CRASH OR SLOWLY FADE AWAY?

by Seeker4 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  Seeker4

  I was just reading the thread about Barbara Anderson and perhaps some BIG NEWS she will publish about the WTS. I agree with those who say that anything Barbara has scandalous about the early history of the Witnesses, ie: Russel or Rutherford times, will have ZERO impact. That whole era is pretty much dismissed by all Witnesses I know. It'll be interesting to see what she has.

  So, what will happen to the WTS? Will some huge scandal bring it down, or will it slowly fade away? Certainly the latter is much more likely. My JW ex-wife is attending the funeral of an old time family friend in Maine today. He was a staunch JW elder for decades, his kids are still Witnesses, most of the grandkids. He was in his 80s, the generation that is rapidly passing off the scene. My ex's JW parents will soon follow, as will my JW Mom.

  Many in my generation have left the WTS. The one thing we had were some really serious Bible students, along with even more serious Watchtower students. The ones who have stayed are tired and have lost their enthusiasm. A lot of them are pissed off with the WTS's flipflop on college, upset that they never got the education they wanted.

  What I see the present JW generations lacking is any kind of serious scholarship. It's completely missing among the Governing Body or the WTS writing and service departments. The published information dropped to about a 6th grade level decades ago, and remains firmly entrenched there

  Real study values are gone among the rank and file. I've been out for a decade, but I do believe that I could still kick the ass of any of the brothers in my former congregation in a biblical discussion, or discussion of WTS history and teachings. When you equate "studying" with reading and underlining a WT article or a paragraph in a book written for a 10 year old, you've got some serious research issues.

  The leadership is pathetic. Poorly trained elders and apathetic flocks. I had a thread on here a while ago that it seems in the US at least that most congregations are down some 25 to 35 percent in the number of elders. We know that most of the good ones leave - a lot of them have ended up here!

  No, the impact of the Internet and the huge number of active ex-Witnesses is taking a toll. It's bringing an ever increasing number out (check all the newbies we get here each week), and keeping a much, much larger number from ever joining the Witnesses to begin with. But, like all huge corporations, the WTS will more likely simply crumble slowly away. I don't ever see it making huge gains again. There's just too much negative stuff on them out there now, and too much computer access. That will only grow, and continue to impact WTS growth negatively.

  Just a couple of thoughts, as I remember an old generation of friends who are dying off, having spent a life working for a myth and a publishing company. I guess in the overall scheme of things, that's probably pretty typical of most lives.

  S4
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  emptywords

  I think it will crash. I think Jehovah himself will bring it down.
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  Gopher

  They've already had large scandals. During the 2001-02 time frame, their affiliation with the UN as an NGO was exposed, as was their protection of thousands of pedophiles within the organization.

  None of these have brought the WT crashing down like Jericho. People on the fringe or thinking about coming in to the JW organization may have come or stayed out as a result, but the core remains, along with some newer ones who are ignorant of all this.

  If the WT goes, it will be less like Jericho and more like Babylon, a very slow fade. (WT = Babylon, do I get marked "G" for use of illustrations?)
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  WTWizard

  I think it's a draw as to whether they crash before they can seize control of all knowledge the way St Augustine did in his time and plunge us all into another Dark Ages. They are reaching the point where you have lawsuits and criminal elements that are coming to a head, and they are being drained of cash. If not for the pedophile scandal and the lawsuits, they might be able to fade away as the money runs out and they have to keep sizing down. However, all those lawsuits could blow up in their faces at any time, forcing them to go belly-up in one hit.

  On the other hand, they are trying extremely hard to seize control of all knowledge. If they succeed in that, we are in for a millennium of Dark Ages where everything is officially known in the Puketower magazines, and anyone who does the research or proofs will be killed off. You don't think this can happen? That's what got us the first Dark Ages--St Augustine was able to legalize all knowledge and ban further proofs and research for a whole millennium.

  Let's hope they crash before they are capable of seizing control. Otherwise, I would say we're in for a long dark age ahead.
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  sspo

  No sudden crash but as time goes on and more will tire out and dying off the WTS will slowly fade.

  A new generation of young ones will never have the zeal and faith of those beleiving that the end was around the corner

  and working their butt off the GB.
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  OnTheWayOut

  They've already had large scandals.

  I am with Gopher on this. There have been huge scandals since way back when,
  and the ones listed- The UN and pedophile protection/payoffs are just the latest.
  There was 1975, action in France recently, the "all-donation" switch, Malawi,
  Ray Franz's dismissal, on-and-on.

  The average rank-and-file is able to swallow the organization's excuse before they
  even hear it. (It must not be true, or they have their reasons.)
  The average human outside the organization couldn't care less and the scandal
  blows over.

  Only former members, and loved ones who know the real truth recognize these
  events as important.

  Scandals will continue to keep people out, but the members will just slowly fade away
  from old age. I do expect some acceleration of exiting from revealing stories as they
  continue to tighten their wallets and get sued- but six and a half-million (probably reaching
  past 7 million before the worldwide decline) will take a long time to die off.
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  flipper

  Seeker 4- Mr. Flipper here. Mrs. Flipper and my son have discussed this very point about what would make this organization come down! In my humble opinion, for what it's worth, if some members of the governing body were revealed to have scandalously molested kids and it became big public knowledge with witnesses talking about it, then maybe it might get some to leave the org. It would take a scandal of proportions which would hit the front page of the papers not page 45 behind the frozen food section! With all the governing bodies attempts at damage control though it would be tough. They are like rats trying to plug the holes on a sinking ship, so it would take a bomb of a scandal to sink them. It would have to be big and convincing. Your guess is good as mine. All I can say is apostates unite to bring them down! Peace out, Mr. Flipper P.S. We all are open to suggestions!
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  OnTheWayOut

  Even in Mr. Flipper's example, the GB would disfellowship the one member so fast and
  tell everyone he's condemned like Judas Iscariot was. It would be huge in the news for
  a very short time, and far less than 10% of the baptized JW's would question their own
  membership. Donations would be down, literature would not get placed. That just means
  selling more property, closing a few congregations, and reorganizing what's left, then
  continuing the slow fade from that point.

  Still, any true scandals should be revealed, and any help toppling the tower is appreciated.

  The only thing I could see that could come close to Mr. Flipper's scenario is a scandal
  involving a GB member (or group of members) and young men at Bethel. Those guys are
  not around children often enough, and are virtually never alone with people outside of the
  Ivory Tower. NOW- DO's and CO's- that could happen. I don't wish it on children, but I
  hope it gets out if it's happening.
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  Bonnie_Clyde

  Even if there was a huge scandal at the top, even if it was in the Governing Body, most people would reason:

  Back in Israel's day, the most of kings were corrupt but Jehovah was still using the nation of Israel. The same is true today. This is still Jehovah's organization, and he expects us to obey even if the leaders are imperfect.
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  Gregor

  I think Seeker put it well in his opening post. They key is the internet. Some think they will adapt into some kind of vanilla religion. I dunno. They are so invested in selling printed paper. The volume they are capable of producing is becoming more difficult to unload on the pubs. as numbers shrink. They have cried wolf (armageddon dates) too many times already but that seems to be the only thing that causes any kind of growth spurt. My guess is they will essentially implode in less than 10 years. By implode, I mean a no growth, shrinking to a crises point.