A Bible Question, please comment

by restrangled 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  esw1966

  My thought is that Jesus didn't speak straight forward, but spoke in illustrations. Such illustrations were able to weed out people along with their intentions and motivations. It allowed some to find God and all he represented and it allowed others to set up power structures and class levels and for people to give up on their search for God and allow others to do it for them.

  I believe the message becomes clear when you search for it and are directed towards it. Basically, it is love and forgiveness and a relationship with God. But as much as I read the Bible as a jw, that point never reached my heart. I had no clue what grace was. I never would have figured it out on my own. I had to reach the bottom before I was able to search for him and discover it. As a jw, I was lost!

  People love idolatry. They are created to worship. If they can't put their heart around God, they will quickly allow themselves to follow an idea or a man. It is so easy to become a follower and not a searcher. Isn't it much easier to believe that you are in an org with all the answers rather than having to discover all the mysterys of life and a relationship with God on your own. God works on individuals and not organiztions. His spirit changes us all on in the inside and allows us to achieve his purpose. A life with God puts you into community and a church, but church isn't the essence of a relationship with God, it is a small part of it.

  Religion has messed up the gospel in that it has an inherent need for works which is opposed to the gospel message. Worship that is dominated by grace allows it's members to do good for the joy of doing good and accomplishing God's purpose. It makes one selfless and loving.

  I love a sermon by Mark Driscoll from Mars Hill Church in Seattle that explains how religion is the second enemy of the gospel after idolatry. I think it is the best sermon I have heard in my life. It can be found at Mars Hill Church, Creative Church Conference May 29,2007, on iTunes. I love it! It is a video which can be seen on your computer or iPod.

  In conclusion, I think the message is hidden and that it is hidden so that it must be searched for. I think that expresses to God our sincere interest in searching for HIM or for others or our own desire. I do believe that a sincere individual will be led to it. I do believe once you discover it, it becomes very evident that you have discovered the truth. That is my experience in life up to this point; 41 years and going!

  Hope that is somewhat helpful....
• 

  exwitless

  Restrangled - If you haven't already, you must read In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz. It may help make you feel a little more at ease with your questions. Also, LDB recommends the book Who Really Wrote the Bible? by Richard Friedman. It's not a 'rip the bible a new one' kind of book or intended to disprove teachings in it. But it does help explain the context in which the bible was written.
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  bobld

  It is all about Power.In the 1st century 99.9 % of the people were unlettered.Those who had the smarts controlled everything.Even today same thing.Just a side note I don't think we have the complete correct translation of the NT.Maybe new scrolls will be found and we will get the true meaning of what God/Jesus are.

  Bob

  PS What the so called smart people said was believed no questions asked.Much like the WBTS.what the GB say is accepted no questions asked
• 

  quietlyleaving

  restrangled, good question - jumping in with both feet here

  So this is my question: God always dealt pretty straight forward with the human race, so why is his book so complicated that none of us are smart enough to get it? Does it make sense that he would only allow a select few to understand what he was trying to say? Maybe it is very simple and it has been complicated to no end my false religion........(you get my drift)

  I agree with some of the others in that the we are looking at the bible as a finished product after the fact from our perspective - but at the time that it was being written and before that there was just as much mystery, misunderstanding and 'unstraightforwardness' going on just as it is today. The structure of human society was changing - from families to tribes, to landownders to cities, to nations etc. (but not necessarily in that order covering myself there).

  The bible writings give some sort of coherence to the complexity of developing human society imo.

  re - scientific knowlege today re the universe's orderliness - again to me we are examining more or less completed stuff or stuff that is changing very very slowly. Whereas society is changing fast. To me that is why religions seems so divided and at sea, they reflect the diversity of humans trying to be orderly.

  Hope I haven't strayed too much from the point you are trying to isolate by your question.
• 

  RAF

  what would any parents want for kids : To grow up (so it's all spiritual in this matter)

  As you stated yourself (according to the OT) having a God protecting or punishing right now (having a double standard attitude to the point t be mean regarding to his agenda) doesn't lead anywhere if you don't take into consideration the agenda in question (and what it shows at the end).

  The jews didn't grow up (more or less than others). In having a purpose (to get to some point - the arrival of Christ with hints along the way as propheties, what shows the OT is that the kind of God that most people want is not worthy : it doesn't allow us to grow up and being wiser without being perfect - that's why according to the gospel neither laws or acts do count - it just ask to have discernement in following Jesus spirituality as example and as a son of God) even propheties doesn't help (obviously).

  About the NT (the Gospel) cheatears who just want it, knows how to attract nor push people to follow them ... they are willing to put more means (attractive to scary stuff) to get their, more than honest people. When there is something to win you always have people who will get into it (cheaters and their victimes) so obviously this would have take place in any kind of stuff ... so it happened here too ... the bible is actually full of hints to see what the cheaters would use to fool people ... you even have to read some stuff in reverse for it to make sens (and it does to me) for instance why Peter instead of John to be the shepard ... the best shepard you have to want him (and it's Christ) Peter was only supposed to bring people to the word (but only that in fact) all christian religious do that ... but then you have to care about who is the master ... it's not for the style that Christ ask 3 times : Peter do you love me ? (the message is more for us - get a clue about who really loves and recognise me for what I really am)

  So this book is full of thinks that cheater can use (for them wanting to spread the word), but if you really search the truth I guess their is at least a chance to find out that they are cheaters (that's the first step) and then if you want to, you focus on Christ ... and oh (that's what it did to me) things become quiet clear.

  For instance regarding to the catolic's who said that Peter will have a successor on earth, who said till when he would have the key ? and more over which real important have this key at the end after death? why would someon wise put such power into a human hands ? ...You can make the same kind of statements to question JW's postulate about the GB.
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  choosing life

  My father was raised as a Baptist and was very turned off by the teaching of hellfire. As soon as he turned 18, he refused to attend anymore. He has not stepped a foot into any church since then and he is quite old now.

  I asked him once why? He stated the same thing that you posted in your question. Basically, why does God not make it crystal clear to everyone what he wants of them and guit hiding behind a confusing book that can be interpreted in many ways. In fact, he also said why does God or jesus not just show themserlves to us plainly and put an end to the confusion?

  I have no answers to your question except that maybe you need to look elsewhere for answers other than the Bible. Look closely at nature and deep inside yourself.
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  restrangled

  Thanks to everyone! There are so many responses to think about and consider. Some jumped out at me! (Especially on another thread about the U.S. actually being the Whore of Babylon)

  I think the Bible as been dissected and scrutinized to the point where we ("Don't see the forest for the trees") to use an old saying.

  For instance: All the 607/587 hoopla.....if God wanted us to calculate he would have given exact dates. If the end times were to be figured during the end times.....it would have been made clear. Revelation was someone's dream.....we all know dream's don't make much sense. A few things can be culled, but not much really.

  It's exciting to try and predict, and apply past events to future events, but in the end....no one really knows and according to the Bible that was the way it is suppose to be.

  Everything contained in Daniel about the statue with feet of clay, all the crap about a slave, faithful and discreet......Jesus gave his life so that no one would be in slavery of any sort......not to religion, not to Governments etc.

  Just a few thoughts, and thanks to everyone who responded! I would love to read more.

  r.
• 

  RAF

  Chosing Life : Jesus gave his life so that no one would be in slavery of any sort......not to religion, not to Governments etc.

  Restangle : you need to look elsewhere for answers other than the Bible. Look closely at nature and deep inside yourself.

  I'd say AMEN to both (since to me God is all - and by that inside ourself too)