by esw1966 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
1 Cor 15:28 - When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
What happens to Jesus at this point? If he is part of a Trinity, does he meld into God and disappear? Does he fade into insignifigance? Is God at that time Jehovah again? How does that all blend?
I think this is one of the most embarrassing NT texts from an "orthodox" Trinitarian perspective, especially in the popular understanding which takes the personae of the so-called "ontological" (or, eternal) Trinity as (permanent) "persons" in the common sense of that word.
It seems to me that most earlier "high christologies" did construe Jesus as "God" in a more "functional" sense (hence closer in essence to what the great Church later rejected as "heresies," docetic and modalist in particular). Hence the "Son" indeed "fades back into the One divine" once his redeeming mission which is his very raison d'être is fulfilled. Paul expresses it in a rather classical monotheistic way (subjection to the one God). John with a more fluid and inclusive concept of the divine speaks of the elect becoming one with the Father and Son just as the Father and Son are. The latter view is definitely less "hierarchical," but in both the present status of the Son is understood as a means to an end. Provisional stricto sensu.
The case is very different with the "lower Christologies" which focus on the fate of the "righteous man Jesus" and his raising from the dead to the right hand of God as a kind of reward and/or vindication post mortem (as in many passages of Luke-Acts). In that perspective, there is no reason why Jesus would "lose" what he has "gained". Ironically the lower Christologies logically lead to an inferior, but more permanent status than the higher ones.
After the 1,000 the full value of the ransom will be applied as mankind become perfect, then their will be no need for a mediator, (high priest) just like Adam and Eve, perfect humans will be able to talk directly to God (prayer) God is called the king of eternity, Jesus was representing God for imperfect people, so he hads to kingdom over to the father. After which Jesus will assume the role he always had, I believe that the earth and humans were Christs inheretence. Have to read up more on that.
I suppose this is one of those "difficult" passages. Of course, Scripture was not written in the form of systematic theology and there are variouis theological emphases from the different writers. This passage deals with what theologians refer to as the "subordination" of the Son.
But, the passage implies this subordination is future. I think it's important to notice that it says:
then the Son himself will be made subject
Imagine if Paul was speaking of the Archangel Gabriel and had said:
"Gabriel will rule until all enemies are vanquished. Then, Gabriel will be made subject to..."
Wouldn't have Gabriel have been subject all along?
One interesting interpretation of this passage can be found here:
http://www.luthersem.edu/word&world/Archives/18-3_Trinity/18-3_Fredrickson.pdf
Notice particularly the last paragraph.
Additional note: depending on your browser, you may not be able to click on the above link and go to that article. It may be necessary to copy and paste the link to make it work.
(To me)
It seems to say that when everything will be in order (ok) their will be no reason to keep separated any kind of essence as spirit in God since the conscience/wisdom (in fact the most valuable part of the essence of God) = Christ had to be separed while working on the whole to have the right perspective and stay perfect (not polluted) to preserve what is adhering to his phylosophy (that's why we don't have to be perfect since we can't - we just need to adhere as volonteer = we have to want it otherwise it would be a rape against our free will) ... at the end he will really share himself into the whole preserved.
Perhaps Jesus will turn all power and authority back to His God, Jehovah. I am okay with that wonderful thought of a loving son handing over the kingdom to Jehovah.
There really is something that WTBTS can not take away and that is my love for Jehovah and his son Jesus. I am not making Jesus lower than the angels but I am not making him higher than my Almighty God Jehovah!
I hope a lot of exjw do not fall back into trinity mind set or gnostic ways!
I suppose he will still have the bride whom he gained through his passions, it's unlikely that he will return to the pre crucifixion status. Also biblically the Father has always been the head of the Son.
Perhaps Jesus will turn all power and authority back to His God, Jehovah. I am okay with that wonderful thought of a loving son handing over the kingdom to Jehovah.
I feel very comfortable with that.
Fredrickson's article (cf. cabasilas' link) offers quite an interesting angle, but imho it should be weighed against the massive connection of the Pauline use of ta panta en pasin ("all in all," the last term of which may be construed either as masculine, i.e., personal, "all in all people," or as neuter, i.e. impersonal, "all in all things," compare 8:6; Romans 11:36) to Stoic (and more broadly popular philosophical) thought thus expressing the relationship of the divine logos to the kosmos. It is noteworthy that Pauline Christology (I mean prior to Colossians-Ephesians) does not fully ascribe a logos role to Christ, and consequently requires that this role ultimately comes back to "God". The perspective will be entirely different in Christologies which identify the "Son" to the eternal logos (John of course, but also Hebrews, Colossians-Ephesians).
