Are JWDers focused on the wrong reasons

by journey-on 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  journey-on

  This is explaining a lot of things to me, however, about my own family situation. Now, I'm beginning to understand why some of them still adhere to the organization, yet some of the JWs like my own sister must be taking a lot of things with a "grain of salt" so to speak.

  She is zealous for the "truth". Her husband is a long-time elder. Yet, her daughter is considering going back to college to get her degree. My sis has NEVER pioneered. She's always worked full time although her hubby can very easily provide financially for them. They go on elaborate vacations, buy expensive automobiles, jewelry, sock money away for retirement, etc. In other words, she's very materialistic by JW standards. As far as I know, she's never brought anybody into "the truth".

  So, all the admonition from the WT and GB to do more, more, more in the service because the end is so near is just going in one ear and out the other for a lot of these faithful Witnesses. They do what's required and act zealous. They simply stay in because the doctrines ring true to them, but they quietly live their lives the way they choose.
• 

  daystar

  My response is simple. "By their fruits shall they be known." It doesn't say by only their good fruits (if that is what one decides they are), but by allof them.
• 

  BizzyBee

  An engraved paperweight that rests on Teddy Jaracz' desk reads:

  "When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."

  (Prolly.)
• 

  changeling

  You're absolutely right. They have "two sets of measures". They condem any other religion as false if their leaders make "mistakes", but they can't apply this same rule to themselves.

  changeling
• 

  Mum

  That little schpiel they gave you in answer to your questions sounds vaguely familiar. Maybe it is a canned response they have learned.

  The bottom line is that it is wrongdoing that hurts people and tells forth what fruitage is being produced. They have done wrong, but instead of focusing on what is done, they focus on things human beings cannot possibly know - hellfire, trinity, immortal soul; we can know the "pagan" origin of holidays, but not everything is bad or hurtful because of the origin. The belief in Satan is of pagan origin (Persian/ Zoroastrian), but they find it useful, so kept it. Jesus did say to preach the kingdom, but I don't think he said it had to be door to door; other churches preach the kingdom anyway, so they don't have a lock-up on preaching the kingdom either.

  By keeping the emphasis on what is believed, not behavior, they show themselves to be "false to the power" of what they preach.

  Regards,

  SandraC
• 

  IP_SEC

  Read them John 9 and 10. Devastate them with the context of who the other sheep really are. There is no way to say the li'l flock and other sheep is heaven and earthly class if you read 10:16 in context.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones that teach real Bible truth regarding hellfire, the trinity, the
  immortal soul, the pagan origins of holidays, and they are the only ones that follow Jesus' command
  to go forth from house to house with the good news of the kingdom.

  I am with Undercover and GoingGoingGone.

  I have made some attempts with the wife on the misuse of scriptures to pressure
  JW's into the door-to-door work. I don't defend holidays because a JW will always
  think they won that argument, but I have tackled pagan origins of everything and
  how the WT used to view it.

  Hellfire and the trinity and immortal soul-
  
  One can pretty much make the bible say whatever one wants... it can support hellfire, Paradise earth, immortal soul, no immortal soul, etc.

  There's nothing wrong with discussion of these, but the average JW will again assume
  they won the argument. That will weaken your stand in their eyes when you discuss
  FDS. Still, Minimus said it, that there are different people that are about different reasons
  to believe.
• 

  Flowerpetal

  This is explaining a lot of things to me, however, about my own family situation. Now, I'm beginning to understand why some of them still adhere to the organization, yet some of the JWs like my own sister must be taking a lot of things with a "grain of salt" so to speak.

  She is zealous for the "truth". Her husband is a long-time elder. Yet, her daughter is considering going back to college to get her degree. My sis has NEVER pioneered. She's always worked full time although her hubby can very easily provide financially for them. They go on elaborate vacations, buy expensive automobiles, jewelry, sock money away for retirement, etc. In other words, she's very materialistic by JW standards. As far as I know, she's never brought anybody into "the truth".

  So, all the admonition from the WT and GB to do more, more, more in the service because the end is so near is just going in one ear and out the other for a lot of these faithful Witnesses. They do what's required and act zealous. They simply stay in because the doctrines ring true to them, but they quietly live their lives the way they choose.

  These are the kind of people I view as secular or social JWs. They just go thru the motions. I know an elder's wife like that, only she didn't work. He supported the family yet they always had money for leisure activities. One time, years ago, when I was going thru a sort of depression, and I worked with her in "service" and all she could talk about was her son and his new wife--and how business-minded they were. And other materialistic types of stuff, or all about her. That day I finally summed her up as someone who has no substance and not a spiritually-minded person at all--not just by WTS standards but any other type of standards that you might find among people in the "world." She had no clue or even picked up any "vibes" from me that I was not looking like a happy person. Or maybe she did, but just didn't care or didn't know how to approach why I was looking so unhappy.
• 

  quietlyleaving

  But, Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones that teach real Bible truth regarding hellfire, the trinity, the immortal soul, the pagan origins of holidays, and they are the only ones that follow Jesus' command to go forth from house to

  Journeyon a witness said the above to me this week almost verbatim.

  Before I became a witness I was a catholic but never cared about life after death, hellfire and yet after I'd become a JW i remember feeling very grateful whenever the wts reminded us (and they do that very often) of what we'd supposedly been freed from. Very cunning but successful propaganda on their part. I guess its a little like a strawman argument - another ploy they use a lot.

  The thing is that in convincing individuals that the wts views are not bible based they may then find that most other christian views re life after death, hellfire etc don't have a solid basis. That can be very scary because they are faced with the question - is this life all there is?

  What I personally like about this board is that all sorts of beliefs are discussed and there is no pressure to make one set absolute truth. However we get to see that life does go on and that it is better outside than in.
• 

  Terry

  So, what I'm saying, is while the leadership of the GB and scandalous issues like the pedophilia and UN issue are what we mainly focus on here along with failed prophecy, they simply say those things are because men are imperfect and make wrong choices. But, JWs have Biblical truths and this is what they stay focused on.

  The fish goes after the worm and not the hook and finds itself caught and pan-friend 1-2-3!!

  You have to see the "hook" under this wiggly worm of "truth".

  Remind these dear folks of something rather troublesome.

  According to Watchtower theology this religious group was utterly CLEANSED in 1918 and purified for their work as true representatives of Jehovah's kingdom.

  If they were cleansed and got dirty again they are the "dog that returns to its vomit". They have to be spewed out of the mouth and there is no forgiveness for them.

  Israel only had Jehovah's blessings when its worship was PURE.

  How can blessings flow from impurity, corruption, false prophecy and making themselves the MEDIATOR between the sheep and Christ??

  If they are corrupt; they are corrupt. If they are clean; they are clean.

  Using doctrines as signposts of Jehovah's approval should have worked for the rabbinical leaders in Jesus day. But, while the pure laws of Jehovah were in their heads they completely misused them for their own glorification and Jesus condemned them.

  MANY will come to me in those days saying, "Lord Lord did I not.....blah blah blah...in your name? I will say to them 'Get away from me you WORKERS OF INIQUITY; I NEVER KNEW YOU."

  In other words, they think Jehovah will use them NO MATTER WHAT. He never has done this. Never.