The Watchtower Society—Is It Murder Incorporated?

by The wanderer 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • The wanderer
    The wanderer

    The Watchtower Society— Is It Murder Incorporated?

    An argument could be made about the Watchtower Society’s blood policy. For
    example, the no blood policy can be seen as a religious belief supported by scripture.

    What would be the difference say, for an individual giving up his life for his country?
    Those are the beliefs of the individual, if he wants to lay down his life for what he
    believes in so be it.

    Consider this side of the argument and please answer the question:
    The Watchtower Society is it murder incorporated?

    Respectfully,

    The Wanderer

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Who said that governments are angels even in the democratic western world where they are bound to abide by a constitution? Also some wars are justified and some are not eg the war against the axis powers was justified to prevent domination of the world by the brutality fascism. Other wars are not really justified. Even so the WTS is not justified in its blood policy, it is just one of the many villains.

  • aniron
    aniron
    What would be the difference say, for an individual giving up his life for his country?
    Those are the beliefs of the individual, if he wants to lay down his life for what he
    believes in so be it.

    If I choose to give my life for my country it will be my decision alone.

    If I decide not to, will my country drive me away put me outside its frontiers and say that I can no longer call myself British.

    The JW has no such choice. Either obey the dictates of the Watchtower or lose your family friends etc.

    If as a JW you accept blood its not your life you are giving up, but the lives of family and friends.

    They will cease to exist for you.

    Watchtower Murder Incorprated ??....

    If you die refusing blood , they have killed you.

    If you accept blood, to them you will be dead.

    You can either take the chance and die. or save yourself and lose others.

    It seems either way the losers will be family and friends.

  • Mariusuk.
    Mariusuk.

    No

    People still have personal responsibility

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Richard, you are creating a storm of threads lately. Are you bitter or depressed?
    Anyway, this is pretty good.

    Many corporations are being held responsible for their actions or products killing
    people, even though they could not have known better at the time. I don't really
    buy into that fully, but recognize that it is a legal "Search-for-the-big-pockets" tactic.

    an individual giving up his life for his country?

    This is touchy in the U.S. right now. People can see how freedom isn't free when
    Hitler is trying to expand his domain, but it isn't so clear when people were convinced
    that "weapons of mass destruction" are coming out of Iraq, but then the evidence
    doesn't hold up. Against Hitler, the willing go and others support them. The attitude
    today is that even though willing soldiers went, the president misrepresented the
    situation that caused them to volunteer. That just about qualifies the military as
    a mind-control cult. (Deceptive recruiting) The soldiers weren't really all that willing,
    either. Many were reservists to protect the country in case of REAL threat, and many
    are forced to serve past their volunteer term now.

    Anyway, not to get bogged in politics, I could say the U.S. government could be held
    responsible for the deaths that misleading information led to. I feel that I need to say
    that to be consistent with claiming WTS is responsible for misleading on the blood
    issue. (It is way more complicated than that- this is just my view.)

  • The wanderer
    The wanderer

    Richard, you are creating a storm of threads lately. Are you bitter or depressed?
    Anyway, this is pretty good. -OnTheWayOut

    I am not sure if I am either one or
    the other. I am sure that I do miss
    somethings about the life though.

    Namely, some very good people that
    I crossed paths with which I will
    never be able to say hello or good
    bye to ever again.

    That is what probably eats at me.

    Perhaps, bitter, but I have to move
    on.

    Respectfully,

    Richard

  • changeling
    changeling

    As witnesses we either complied with the current blood policy or were DF'd. In a sense, the choice was taken from us. Therefore, in a sense, the WT is responsible for the deaths of many. If there is a god, and he is just, they stand accused.

    changeling

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    In trying to make this comparison a major difference came to mind. An apples to mangos comparison IMO.

    The man/woman who elects to join a military service does so with full intent on facing their potential death in war. It is plainly part and parcel of the program. Not all die. Not all go to a shooting-war. But some do, and in times of national attack or war, many will die.

    With the Watchtower - though one that joins is aware of the blood policy, he is often somewhat sheilded from the reality of that possiblility at the first. He learned of it sitting in his living room, reading the Wt publications. He might be young, inexperienced, and sure that that situation will not ever come around in his lifetime. And the reality - that if one violates the policy 25 or 40 years later - long after his initial decision to join the cult, and having now had time to decide as a mature human what course to take, is that he will lose not only his relationship with God [which is basically what the Wts says will happen], but his relationship with Jw wife, children, parents, uncles, cousins, brothers and sisters, and all Jw's he has known for those decades. No where, in the teaching publications of Jw's do they tell him that. They gloss it - they parade the doctrine, but hide the realistic consequences of accepting it.

    When one joins the military he is aware of the real possiblities from the start. The likelihood that war will be engaged in at some point is always there. The policy of sending troops into war is always there. With the Jw's, those df'd for blood use today, may, let's say 15 years from now, see the blood policy completely changed. There will be no retrofitting of the policy for the individuals hurt by dfing. And those that died due to the policy will be forever gone for no reason. [I realise that some of this argument could be applied to national political policies also - but not the fact that death and military service always go together to some extent.]

    Interesting topic, Richard.

    Jeff

  • Burger Time
    Burger Time

    Perhaps I have the rarest of the rare, the bible thumping non self righteous J-dub Mom. One thing I agree with her on is that any time you file membership (in this sense being baptized) for anything you should only do it if you know and accept things they believe. Now perhaps the argument could be made that they influence what you know and accept, but as mind controlling as people claim it, it is your choice and no one else's. If you really feel that blood is OK by the bible then just do it and stop bitching about this stuff. Like someone earlier said you either take the chance and do it or your don't, but you can't blame someone else for an action you yourself did. Guilt alone is no excuse for someone taking control of your life, that being said I also think that if the WTS truly believes that they should abstain from blood then so be it. If there is evidence they knew there is no biblical knowledge for it and they are holding that back from members then yes they are blood guilty.

  • rekless
    rekless
    Those are the beliefs of the individual, if he wants to lay down his life for what he
    believes in so be it.

    This deals with choices, in the WTBTS there isn't any choice if you believe the teachings.

    Very few knew that every subject was brought up for a vote by the GB until Ray Franz wrote COC. I believed that the organization was the channel of God.

    My son died of Leukemia when he was 18, he also believed the Org. was God's org.

    Nothing was questioned, but once I read COC and found out that blood transfusions missed being an approved medical treatment by one f------ vote because the swing vote did not show up for that meeting...yes I believe the org. is murder incorporated, and to top it off my wife died too because of ...oh well what the hell.

    dan walker of Clearlake, Ca.

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