by Save My Soul 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I don't excatly know what the rapture is. I think different people have different takes on it.
Once, when I was in field service, a person at the door told me that Jesus would take people up to Heaven by the hair of their heads. I told her I wondered what would happen to bald people. Oops, oops, too slick...just can't get a good hold......
THE RAPTURE IS OVERATED. THUMBS DOWN.
I'm not buying it at this point - maybe some day. I read all of the Left Behind series of books. It is a very thought provoking story but I can't get beyond my feeling that the Rapture is fiction. Maybe it's because that term is never used in the scriptures.
Seems I recall reading Russell believed in the Rapture when he first got his group of bible students started.
Once, when I was in field service, a person at the door told me that Jesus would take people up to Heaven by the hair of their heads. I told her I wondered what would happen to bald people.
LOL, that was an excellent response.
My belief is that The rapture is just part of christendom's mythos.
I enjoy how preachers like Jack Van Impe and Arnold Murray take opposite sides and deride those that disagree with their biblical interpretation concerning the rapture.
nope.
On the other hand, one time in field service this older sister had someone tell her that at the sound of a trumpet she would be whisked up in to the heavens at the rapture. Virginia told her she hoped she was wearing her knickers at the time or she'd be pretty embarrassed.
Never heard the hair part before, lol at the bald thing.
Sherry
Of course I do. I'm no fumbling virgin, you know. I've had some good times and some rapturous times. You'll believe it too once you perfect your method.
wINQ
Of course I do. I'm no fumbling virgin, you know. I've had some good times and some rapturous times. You'll believe it too once you perfect your method.
wINQ
Now that's funny! for that, wINQ!
Biblically the rapture is a valid event and one that strangely the JWs ignore. According to Paul during the last day the dead saints will be resurrected and the living saints will be taken up with them in heavens at the same time after their human bodies get transformed to spiritual ones.
This is fundamentally correct! But most people don't understand this involves a very long period of time. You see, as 1 Corinthians 15 says, corruption does not put on incorruption until man's last enemy death is destroyed. And when is that? That is not until after the second resurrection and everybody has been judged on Judgment Day. Once all the wicked have been killed off then death and Hades themselves are destroyed forever, never being a threat to any man again. That's when the rapture takes place, at the very end of things, after death is destroyed for ever, which is after Judgment Day, which doesn't begin until after the millennium and Satan has been let loose for a short while, probably 40 years, to test post-millennial mankind.
However, the first phase of the resurrection where those who died come back to be with those already alive happens even before the second coming occurs. Christ himself returns in the flesh at the second coming but raises the dead while he is Michael, the Archangel. So when Paul says that everybody will get their heavenly prize at the same time, he's correct because they are all in the flesh at the time, including Jesus himself. But the time involved from when they reappear in the flesh with those living during the last days and when they go to heaven is a period of close to 1140 years or more.
So this is how this has to be understood: 1 Thess 4:
13 Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by the Lord's word, that we [yes, including Paul who never dies along with John and others] the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death];[Please note, this establishes two classes in Jesus' day; those of the "living" who live on, and those who die and must coming back. But each group gets their heavenly bodies at the same time.] 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice [thus Christ is still in angelic form when the first phase of the resurrection takes place back into the flesh.] and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. [Yes, those who have died are like seeds that rise first by being planted into the bodies of modern followers of Christ. This makes the first resurrection completely invisible to the world. "To each one its own body"--1 Cor. 15] 17 Afterward we [this means Paul never dies] the living who are surviving [notice this word, "surviving" which is appropriate if you have to live down through time for 1900 years until the Lord returns!] will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words. "
So again, first those in the "dying" class are resurrected back on the earth with those who are in the "living" class who are already alive when the Lord arrives. So everybody all together are back in the flesh. Then AFTERWARD, some 1140+ years afterward, when death is no more and Judgment Day is over and Satan is destroyed, then the rapture takes place and all in the Bride Class are changed in the twinkling of an eye into their spirutal bodies.
Some may think, "That's a long time to wait to go to heaven". But think about what a prize going to heaven is? They don't get that without a lot of self sacrifice and that is to help as many of mankind qualify for life. So they perform a wonderful and important king-priest service so their reward is well deserved. But before sitting around in heaven sipping champagn and lattes, there is a lot of work to be done. But Christ likewise as well is working very hard for this period to help save as many of mankind as possible. So they don't go to heaven right away.
TECHNICAL DETAILS: A couple of technical details. The Jews lost 90% of the seats in the kingdom and are restricted to just 10% Jews, and this is the 144,000 (12,000 from each tribe). Thus the entire number of anointed ones is 1,440,000.
Also, again, the chronology is important. If Christ as Michael the archangel resurrects the dead for the first coming then this has to occur before he returns to the earth in human form. Thus the first resurrection occurs before the second coming. If the second coming occurred in 1914, 1934 or 1992 (related to the fall of Jerusalem in either 607, 587 or 529 BCE), then the first resurrection is over! It's invisible to the world, though because god uses the bodies of others to acomplish the first resurrection. These resurrected ones take up the body of other individuals and share their identity and knowledge just as Christ takes up the body of the prodigal son when he returns in the flesh at the second coming. That's the meaning of being "sown into weakness" and raised up in strenth. Or sown in a physical body and raised up in a spiritual one. Sown in "corruption" (imperfect body) and raised in "incorruption" (spiritual body). The weak, physical bodies are the imperfect body of Christ's followers alive at the time of the second coming.
So yes, the first resurrection has already taken place and I actually know who Daniel and Peter are in their new identities. Paul and John and many others who are part of the "living" class that "survive down to the Lord's day", of course, never die, and so this scriptures shows that Paul knew he would be part of those surviving and living down to the Lord's day.
The Rapture is certain, but it is still a far, far while away yet.
JCanon
It is the transformation of the physical body into a spiritual body in an nistant. I think the disagreement among various groups is when it will occur before, during or after the great tribulation?
