by erandir 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I had a good discussion Saturday night with my witness wife about how the Society is basically a modern-day version of the Pharisees and how Jesus condemned them in his day and how he would condemn the Society today.
Does anyone have any good points or any insight into comparing the Society with Pharisees? Anything you have would be helpful so I could get my thoughts together and figure out a way to approach this subject with her in the future whenever it comes up.
Everytime I read about the scribes and pharisees in the bible I invision the society.
(John 9:18-41) . . .However, the Jews did not believe concerning him that he had been blind and had gained sight, until they called the parents of the man that gained sight. 19 And they asked them: "Is this YOUR son who YOU say was born blind? How, then, is it he sees at present?" 20 Then in answer his parents said: "We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. 21 But how it is he now sees we do not know, or who opened his eyes we do not know. ASK him. He is of age. He must speak for himself." 22 His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that, if anyone confessed him as Christ, he should get expelled from the synagogue. 23 This is why his parents said: "He is of age. QUESTION him." 24 Therefore a second time they called the man that had been blind and said to him: "Give glory to God; we know that this man is a sinner." 25 In turn he answered: "Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that, whereas I was blind, I see at present." 26 Therefore they said to him: "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?" 27 He answered them: "I told YOU already, and yet YOU did not listen. Why do YOU want to hear it again? YOU do not want to become his disciples also, do YOU?" 28 At this they reviled him and said: "You are a disciple of that [man], but we are disciples of Moses. 29 We know that God has spoken to Moses; but as for this [man], we do not know where he is from." 30 In answer the man said to them: "This certainly is a marvel, that YOU do not know where he is from, and yet he opened my eyes. 31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is God-fearing and does his will, he listens to this one. 32 From of old it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of one born blind. 33 If this [man] were not from God, he could do nothing at all." 34 In answer they said to him: "You were altogether born in sins, and yet are you teaching us?" And they threw him out! 35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and, on finding him, he said: "Are you putting faith in the Son of man?" 36 The [man] answered: "And who is he, sir, that I may put faith in him?" 37 Jesus said to him: "You have seen him and, besides, he that is speaking with you is that one." 38 Then he said: "I do put faith [in him], Lord." And he did obeisance to him. 39 And Jesus said: "For [this] judgment I came into this world: that those not seeing might see and those seeing might become blind." 40 Those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and they said to him: "We are not blind also, are we?" 41 Jesus said to them: "If YOU were blind, YOU would have no sin. But now YOU say, ‘We see.’ YOUR sin remains.
Sorry, I can't change my font for some reason, but this passage reminds me so much of the fear of expulsion/disfellowshipping that those in power in the Borg put on the Dubs.
Hmm, comparisons between Scribes&Pharisees and the WTS. I think they're pretty rampant.
Matt 15:1-9 (KJVR): Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them,
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, hes hall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.Ye hypocrites,well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
I think its pretty clear how the "teaching for doctrines the commanments of men" applies to the WTS. I thought it was funny - some time ago I visited the official JW website and on one of the pages it said something to the effect of "We do not impose any extraneous rules on the membership that are not biblical." What a load! I also think there's a valid comparison in the first part of the text - JW's require members to no longer give honor to their fathers/mothers if they should be disfelloshipped, instead to continue in their devotion to the WTS. Also:
Mar 12:38
And in his teaching he said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplacesMar 12:39
and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,Mar 12:40
who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation." (ESV)What was the last count on cash value of the WTBS's real estate? In the billions, wasn't it? R&F donations going to a good cause, right? -.-
And how about Jesus's long condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees in Matthew chapter 23?
verse 4: "They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others; but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them." A variety of meanings can be taken from this, but I'm reminded of the discouragement of higher education, shackling people with regards to their finances while they live very comfortably off of the donations of the rank and file.
Musicman
Thanks for the responses. Looks like I have a lot to work with here. I just need to get my copy of the WTLib up and running, and away I go.
BTT
This is a fantastic question and it deserves many more replies.
I'm strapped for time, however I offer a couple of examples I've thought about:
-rules and regulations versus love
-rules and regulations versus using your conscience
-workarounds for thorny issues (i.e. blood fractions)
-treatment of those who leave or change their mind (i think someone mentioned this above)
The rules and regulations totally reminds me of the Pharisees. The pharisees went beyond what was written in so many ways. The WTS does too.
Should we clap when someone gets reinstated?
Should we give gifts when someone is baptized?
What movies can we watch?
local bodies of elders decide what color shirts can be worn on the stage;
can a brother count field service time for a public talk?
Can a brother count time for a DC or CA part?
Can we count time for working on a quick build?
What steps are required prior to baptism? etc etc etc.
Yes, I always compared them to the Pharisees in many ways.
The one scripture that stands out in my mind is where the Jewish religious leaders were talking about Jesus and how they were afraid the crowd would follow him and they said words to the effect that they were afraid they "....would lose their place and their nation". I think this sums up the JW leaders most of all. They are afraid if the average JW finds out all the dirt about the religion they will no longer have a "place".
They are afraid they will end up out on the front lines like the rest of the world - looking for a job.
LHG
Ok, now how about the common response (like my wife gave not too long ago): "Yes, but there are so many more witnesses today and in an organization this big, there need to be rules to keep up the UNITY of the brotherhood."
My counter response is something like "so you're saying the Bible is insufficient...the principles and laws therein are not enough?"
Another related response has to do with Paul and the apostles sending letters to various congregations and how the Governing Body does the same today. My response includes that those letters then were accepted into Bible canon...but today they are not. Why?
and for a pretense make long prayers
Ha...reminds me of that thread not too long ago about the ten minute prayer/talk at the end of the convention this year.
and for a pretense make long prayersHa...reminds me of that thread not too long ago about the ten minute prayer/talk at the end of the convention this year.
Yeah, but when a JW does this at the end of a fine upbuilding convention, it is sincere!!!! Right? Speaking of conventions, this reminds me of the WTS directive to always wear your badges even at restaurants, hotels (and probably if you go mini-golfing too). Didn't the Pharisees use 'broad scripture-containing cases' to show who they were? So the WTS is trying to turn its followers into a bunch of little Pharisess.
