by Amber Rose 37 Replies latest watchtower medical
Interesting thread
There are many JW's I know or have heard of that take anti-depressants. I have heard cases where half the congregation is on those meds.
From that standpoint alone, one can say that the JW's are not a "healthy religion". Spiritual abuse runs rampant, thus the self confidence erodes and depression can take root.
Don't think of it as a "mental" disorder, that's a distraction. Think of it in terms of behavior. Is the Witness life a life of behavior order? Or is it a life of conflicted and confused behavior? Because confused behavior is the definition of disorder.
Here, typically mental health centers are actually called "behavioral health" centers. Why not call them mental health centers? Because mental health is hard to observe and measure apart from behavior, so behavior is the major indicator used to measure illness and health of the brain.
Think of the person you think of when you typically think of Jehovah's Witnesses. Does that person's behaviors indicate an underlying mental wellness or an underlying mental illness? List the behaviors on an objective spread sheet. Do the behaviors match well or ill? Do the behaviors tell me the subject is happy or not happy? Does their behavior tell me they are happy living with me or does it tell me they are using the activity as an escape?
Another way to analyze behavior, is to take it out of context and analyze it out of context. Would the behavior still be okay if the activity was bowling? or gambling? Or is it simply just being justified and rationalized as okay because it's "religious" behavior rather than going to the library, or going shopping?
If a spouse went to the casino 5 days a week for hours and donated family funds to that activity would it be seen as healthy or might there be a problem? If there were a problem, would you think you'd have best results just saying nothing and hope for change? Or maybe take a reactive position and expose the person to information that shows the activity is harmful? Or might you take a proactive, pragmatic, rational approach? Which do you think might yield the best results?
No, it's not a disorder, but it most certainly doesn't help people who have the disorder. The rest of my family is on medication for depression. It's really sad to see my dad rub his forehead in desperation and say, "We need that new system....we need that new system..." almost like a mantra.
It's not healthy to give people a multi-color, panda-filled fantasy world and then tell them that it's the only solution to their problems. Real problem solving seeks out practical solutions to problems. Killing 99.99% of humanity does not fit that definition...
Paranoia fills daily witness life...fear of demons, fear of elders, fear of outsiders, fear of objective research, fear of elders...
Terry gave a very good synopsis of the process that leads to behavioral or mental issues in jws. Cognitive dissonance is what is created. This is enough to cause mental problems even in people who are normally quite strong mentally.
To be a jw, you basically have to split yourself in two. Part of you is in the total control of the mind games, but another part is screaming to be heard. You have to spend a lot of effort not to let that rational part of your mind come to the surface. When glimpses of the rational mind do break through, it causes much anxiety and often depression. You have to find a way to get back in that "cozy place" where all is taken care of for you.
So, yes it can cause mental problems. Then if you finally break free, you have to deal with being used and lied to, not to speak of the time you wasted.
I don't know if people with mental disorders gravitate toward the witnesses..but as a person brought up in the organization I believe that it can cause mental disorders like depression..starting from the fact that you can never do enough..you are always sub standard..there are constant comparisons being done..to elders, pioneers, etc....and of course the best part is the guilt factor..I can't tell you how being inactive has relieved me of so much anxiety because of being able to throw away that burden of guilt..guilt for missing the meetings, guilt for sleeping in on sunday, guilt for not commenting, guilt for not preparing, guilt for not reading the daily text, GUILT, GUILT, GUILT!!!! I can see this same feeling in my active brothers and sisters..to the point that some don't feel worthy of being in the organization...It's ridiculous!!! So I say yes..being raised in the organization can make you nuts!!!!!!!!
They are given so much to be afraid of, including the demons, dying at Armageddon, and never being good enough. The guilt complex they impose is itself a major problem that stops many from finding fulfillment, often after they have left the Tower.
that is 100% true.
I think it is inability to synthesize information and to think critically. There may be emotional blocks that cause the inability to think critically. There is a theorist who describes different levels of knowledge synthesis, I can't remember his name but the final level is critical thought. JWs are not at that level. Even the so-called educated ones. I have known many many people who have advanced degrees but who can not be self-critical.
i dont agree that being a jw is comparable to having a mental illness.
jw are normal human beings from all walks of life.
some have overcome serious problems, some are battling serious problems.
what keeps them going is their trust in jehovahs promise to eradicate all forms of suffering soon.
perhaps also some take encouragement from the book of job whose faith was seriously tested by satan who gladly failed.
obviously not all people have the strong faith and determination as job
and also job wasnt suffering from a form of mental illness....and for those that do, their battle to remain faithful is much harder, hence why i presume some eventually fall away from the faith which naturally is saddening but understandable.
of course we can recieve 'power beyond what is normal' to cope with everyday stress but that wont change a serious mental disorder.
also suffering a mental illness affects too one's self esteem.
one feels incomplete as a human...a bit like a car without wheels...you wont get very far in life.
also depression can set in which brings a person down which again is heartbreaking.
under those conditions many will 'snap' in a spiritual sense and convince themselves that by walking away from jehovah, will bring them relief.
and for some it does because in a sense you become free to let out your emotions without fear or guilt which one cant really do when one is a practising witness.
but when i say 'free to let our your emotions' i mean in the sense of perhaps cursing and getting angry perhaps at jehovah himself in prayer.
all in all i think that being a jw is much less stressful and hard to deal with when you are sound in body and mind.
the individual(s) that arent sound in body and mind will always feel a greater need to lean on jehovah or fellow witnesses more than those that arent ailing in mind and body.
either way it is equally saddenning for those that are healthly to see their spritual brothers and sisters who arent.
this is why i believe that jehovah must prove to be true and reliable when he adopts a worshipper that is ailing.
if he doesnt remove what is stumbling the person then he must provide a means of encouragement endurance and comfort by any means available so that that individual(s) are not overwhelmed with depression.
by doing so on our behalf jehovah surely shows his deep love care and compassion which to the reciever is of great value.
having experienced suffering in my life, i realise how important,how precious even is love.
yes we need food water clothes etc etc but without love and care we are incomplete.
i long for the day when jehovah will take over because this system in my opinion has been a disaster.
as imperfect people we have learnt to hurt ourselves to be happy.
that can be seen in the practice of cigarette use..drug abuse..the list goes on and on.
thankfully we dont all follow the same unatural path, but that doesnt mean it should be permitted to continue.
we as people need to be come familiar with true happiness without drugs or whatever people use to make themselves happy.
i want to know for sure if jehovah himself can make us happy.
he has proved that he knows how to sustain us from day to day with food and water.
the ecological system is another example of jehovahs care and wisdom.
unless jehovah himself had not done those things man could not create it.
in fact man has proved that over the centuries we have lived on planet earth, man has gradually been destroying our planet.
i dont need to go into great detail because we are all already aware of what is happenning.
man has a provider has shown himself to be selfish and wicked.
we can see that in the things in the world like weapons of war, cigarettes, drugs, guns, racism, etc etc.
under jehovahs rule those things will be removed....under mans rule those things remain.
we humans have paid a huge price by adam and eve's disobedience.
true they had free will but they made a selfish and foolish choice of course influenced by the angel who became satan the devil.
if they had strictly obeyed jehovahs commandment, they would be alive today and i would not be sitting here typing this.
and everyone of you would not be lacking faith in jehovah because we would have no reason to doubt jehovah thanks to the obedience of our first parents and of course our own obedience to jehovah.
but obeying him under perfect conditions would be much easier than it is now.
now we have more cause to complain and rebel because conditions are bad.
we may reason, we are imperfect now so why should i obey jehovah?
i will still die as a imperfect human even if i obey him so therefore i will live life the way i want to.
jehovahs witnesses prove by their actions that it is possible to humble one's self even though we are not perfect,
and still obey jehovah.
its not easy, in fact it is proberly the hardest thing to do, but nevertheless it can be done.
and the reward for doing so is the hope of everlasting life here on planet earth under paradisic conditions and in perfect health.
and the hope of being reunited with loved ones who fell asleep in death centuries ago.
no where else can one find such hope except from the bible whose author is jehovah god.
we are told that he cannot lie and that he is the very personification of love.
our planet alone is proof of his love care wisdom and power.
let alone the endless variety of food and liquid we can quench our thirst with.
if anything man by his selfisness and greed means we sometimes dont get much to eat or drink.
the bible again gives us hope by promising that under jehovah's rulership their will prove to be plenty of grain upon the earth and on top of the mountains there will be a overflow.
there is a overflow now even under mans rule but again greed has meant many go without food or drink.
is it any wonder why many are putting their trust in jehovah?
after centuries of human rule poverty and hunger still takes its toll on people.
under jehovahs rule poverty and hunger will be eradicated FOREVER.
that tells us then that it is jehovahs heavenly government that will solve mankinds problems.
not george bush or tony blair.
this why jw preach consistently the good news because it is the only good news worth hearing.
if human government promises were the answer, why do we still have unresolved problems?
the bible answers that question very clearly by telling us that it is not for earthling man who is walking to even direct his own step
and it concludes that fact by saying correct me oh jehovah.
when we acknowledge and accept that mankind needs help in directing his steps, we are on the path to recovery.
however mankind for centuries has buried its head in the sand and stubbornly continues to direct their own step(which is their right being humans endowed with free will) but the consequence of ignoring the advice from our creator means failure without fail.
and history has proved that to be true.
OMG!!! that was the longest post ever!!!! so just let me ask one question...if Jehovah is sooooooooo loving and wants us to be happy, etc...why is he going to destroy 90% of the population in Armageddon, including children, old people, women, men, etc???? And as far as receiving the power beyond what is normal..many people who experience difficult things overcome them and some don't even believe in God.. so let's not attribute all good things to Jehovah...I mean if I over come my depression it's due mostly to prozac...not Jehovah...If I get a new job it's because I worked hard not because I was "blessed"...How do you know that these things are from Jehovah??? I think you suffer from taking the placebo pill too long..you credit Jah for all these things but in the end it's just you out there.....
first of all i thank you for responding to my post..and i agree it is long!
second thing is i too suffer from depression, my depression stems from the anxiety disorder i have.
ive had it since childhood, i'm 40 years old now so its been a long term problem and if i am honest i do question the things the bible tells us about jehovah but deep down i have a feeling that jehovah is true.
thirdly i am still at the bible study stage so i am not yet babtised.
i dont know if i will ever qualify for babtism because i'm still trying to fear jehovah.
that is something i dont find easy as ive never feared him before.
as for destroying lots of people, well the way you put it it sounds like you think jehovah is bloodthirsty...well i can assure you he isnt.
the bible says he takes no delight in the death of wicked people.
also jesus said that there is more joy in heaven when a wicked person repents.
also remember the story of jonah?
how god told him to warn the people to repent but jonah ran away and was swallowed by a whale and then spat out on dry land.
then he started to suffer from the heat and jehovah showed mercy and made the bottle plant grow from the ground but the next day it died and jonah started to complain and jehovah taught him a lesson in that if he showed jonah mercy, why shouldnt he do the same for all those people?
that doesnt seem like a bloodthirsty god to me.
also before he brought the flood in noah's time he told him to preach to the people so that they might repent but they didnt.
therefore is it unreasonable on jehovah's part to have brought the flood without giving people a chance?
no it isnt unreasonable, in fact it showed that he didnt want to do it but the people left him no choice.
every single day jehovah is giving each and everyone of us a chance to repent because he knows that this time there will be no second chance and wouldnt you agree that our planet is in a terrible condition?
so much crime, suffering etc etc.
does jehovah not urge people to be good?
does he not urge children to obey their parents?
did the apostle paul under divine inspiration not urge people to return evil to noone
but instead to keep conquering evil with good?
are those not positive loving things?
and who inspires them?
is it not jehovah?
who has given us the planet to live on filled with food and animals and beautiful flowers etc etc?
it is all from jehovah.
does not imperfect parents rent a home in which their children can live?
do they not fill it with good things for themselves and their childrens benefit?
if that is so, then our heavenly father did all those things for us first.
no wonder revalations says that you are worthy alone jehovah to recieve the honour and glory even forever because it was your will that everything exists.
is that not true?
what parent on earth does not owe thanks to jehovah?
remember too that jehovah had only good things in store for humans when he created the earth.
he commisioned adam and eve to sudue the earth and take care of it and to be fruitful and become many.
in other words, i have given you life and i expect you to take care of it and to extend it to many.
would you say those are bad things from jehovah?
remember every slice of bread you eat and water you drink is from jehovah...his will made those things exist because he knows we need food and water.
a wicked god would leave us hungry and thirsty.
and before you say why then does jehovah allow us to suffer?
adam and eve brought suffering on themselves and in doing so brought suffering onto us because we are their descendants.
therefore jehovah cannot be rightly blamed for human suffering.
jehovahs right to rule mankind was challenged by adam eve and the angel who made himself satan the devil.
that angel said that adam and eve would become like god knowing good and bad and that they would not die.
if that is not true tell me where is adam and eve today?
are they not dead?
and if they would become like jehovah why are they not in their own heaven now if they were to become gods and goddess?
the truth is because it was all a lie.
jehovah proved to be the trustworthy one that day...he said in the day they eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad they would positively die...and they did..not immediatly but gradually.
they lost all the good jehovah had blessed them with...because they choose their own course of independance.
jehovah therefore reseved the right to withdraw his support and grant their wish to be independant.
adam and eve no doubt quickly realised they had made a serious error.
can you imagine the tears they must of shed?
can you imagine the guilt they felt for bringing death to all other humans?
wasnt it a loving thing that jehovah made a provision through means of his son jesus christ so that through his death mankind might have what adam and eve threw away?
wasnt it loving of jehovah to help the isralites?
despite their unfaithfullness he exercised patience and mercy till it was no longer worth it.
jehovah has not changed, he is the same god who created earth and adam and eve and gave them a wonderful prospect of living forever on a paradise earth.
that hope is still valid and many are taking advantage of that so that one day they too can live right here on planet earth under the conditions we were all meant to live under and forever.
