Need LOGICAL PRESENTATION that FDS is BS- talk w/2 elders wanting to help (page 3)

sweet pea

A&W - That is very brave talk.

It's good that you're so determined and are prepared to stick up for the real 'truth'.

However, from personal experience, I said practically the same thing but wasn't at all prepared for the reality of where this leads. Are you really ready to face all your friends and family wanting nothing to do with you from immediate effect, branding you an evil rebellious person?
It is not pleasant to say the least.

With any planned action you have to ask yourself what is the prize?

I doubt anything you say to these elders will make a difference to them personally - they need to individually be in a position where they have doubts themselves and go to the internet to find the answers, or to be some in sort of a tragic situation/mental condition. All it will do is result in stress and upset for you, believe me, been there, done that!

You can help more people if you fade away. Don't meet with these elders and keep a low profile for a while. This will be difficult as you probably want to tell the world what you've discovered. Review the situation in 6 months please. I wish I had done this so that when the initial intense emotions had faded I could have acted more effectively.

If you want to talk by phone - just pm me.

OnTheWayOut

Sweet Pea said:

With any planned action you have to ask yourself what is the prize?

....

You can help more people if you fade away. Don't meet with these elders and keep a low profile for a while. This will be difficult as you probably want to tell the world what you've discovered. Review the situation in 6 months please. I wish I had done this so that when the initial intense emotions had faded I could have acted more effectively.

This JWD has been so helpful to me. While my BOE was ignoring me, I wanted a confrontation, but was convinced
by concerned JWD posters to just skip the confrontation. It won't do any good. Recently, I have been contemplating
how to handle a possible shepherding visit that they are obligated to attempt to make on all inactive ones. (I would be
considered a new inactive one since the last C.O. visit, and they will probably try to visit me.)

JWD reminds me not to bother with such meetings. Just keep fading without them. Even if you are not fading and don't
care about being DF'ed- there's not much to gain. You will score points only in your own mind, not theirs. If you must
go, let us know how it went, but don't expect the elders in the room to applaud your excellent insights or to soften any
because they can't answer questions. Don't expect logic to win the day over cult training.

R6Laser

Waste of time IMO. Why not just move on with our life, instead of wasting your time trying to reason with people who will not see it your way no matter what?

Anti-Christ

I understand why you want to do this, I also wanted to do the same thing but now I realise that to come out of a mind controlling cult you have to be ready, nothing you could say would change anything if they don't already have serious doubts, but if you really feel like you have to do this then do it. If it was me, I would try to "plant seeds of doubt" in them I would go with the bible is b.s. angle. There are many verses you could use to show that the bible is not the word of an all knowing and loving god and a lot of historical facts to show that Jesus is just an other sun god. I don't have all the references but for starters you could look at the first part of Zeitgeist the movie, its on the Internet for free, it has a few interesting things you could use. Also Internet infidels and Evil Bible.com has some good information.

LongHairGal

Terry:

Very good analogy of the girl on a date with the nervy boyfriend trying to stick his hand up her dress....that guy should get clobbered with a handbag! LOL

In truth, though, what will happen is a 'violation' of sorts. A mental one. This is why somebody should be firm. I also agree that two against one is not a fair match unless you are the 'right' kind of personality. This is rare because anger and other emotions can sidetrack somebody who has the best of intentions and thinks they are going to say this and that. A person doesn't have much control in a face to face meeting anyway because anything can happen especially with arrogant overbearing personalities. You would have better control in a letter because you are stating your facts without somebody interrupting you.

LHG

bluesbreaker59

If you have any family or friends that you care ANYTHING about, that are still in, DO NOT MEET WITH THESE WINDBAGS!!!!!!

DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY ARE ANY DIFFERENT!!! Most of us have been there, done that, some assumed that their family was "different" and had unconditional love, and would still talk, guess what, they were usually wrong. As soon as I got DF'd, my family dropped me like a hot potato, friends that I'd had for years no longer speak, email or call. I tried to "reason" with a couple of really good friends, and they don't do anything except go into this weird "shut down" mode. They turn off their ears and don't listen, all they do is sit there with a hateful, glazed look in their eyes and think "apostate".

If you have no one that you give a damn about in the Borg, don't do it. Even if you don't and you're just a single person in the Borg with no friends, why waste your time??? Seriously, I know I have better stuff to do with my time, like watching the grass grow, watching paint dry, running my hand over a cheese grater, chewing on tin foil or picking belly button lint.

You won't make them think, you will actually strengthen their faith, its a sick, viscious circle but its true.

AWAKE&WATCHING

Hi all! I just logged on so I need to catch up on your advice. From skimming I can see that I probably should have included the fact that I don't have a lot to lose , relationshipwise by getting disfellowshipped. I was also a bad J.W. who kept her worldly friends so it's all good.

OnTheWayOut

I don't have a lot to lose

The advice to NOT BOTHER is still valid, but you are free to persue this, then. JWD posters
will want you to do it, just so you can tell them about it. If your health is good and you don't
have problems getting into arguments, then there is no real reason not to try. Since you don't
have much to lose, you can use any argument that is important to you.

False prophecies of end times, lack of love, lawsuits, their attack on churches while hiding their
own problems, chronology, the U.N., dismissing their Bethelite family members without pensions,
twisted NWT scriptures, Mexico/Malawi, 2/3rds majority decides God's Will, etc. etc. etc.

I wouldn't bother. If my mother passed away or left the JW's, I have decided to stop fading and
be open about my observations. Mom will easily live another 20 years or more (which I am happy
about) so I must continue fading. BUT I HAVE DECIDED NEVER TO BOTHER WITH THE DA / DF
MEETING. I want to have the same confrontation that you are contemplating, I have just been able
to realize it won't do much good. It would be fun to do and report on, though.

AWAKE&WATCHING

I appreciate all of your opinions and advice.

Here's to independant thinking!

I started a new thread with a little BACKGROUND because I appreciate the warnings not to talk.

I am in no danger. My purpose is to be able to tell them these things while I still can. The fact that they are actually listening to me (so as to prove me wrong) is to me, a rare and amazingchance that most of us will never get. I truly have nothing to lose and there could be seeds of doubt that my information waters. To me this is an opportunity - not a waste of time, regardless of the outcome.

5go

I would forget about it if they are not having doubts already all you will do is reinforce their idea of apostates.

Need LOGICAL PRESENTATION that FDS is BS- talk w/2 elders wanting to help

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