How ethical is it to sow DOUBT in the minds of sincere Jehovah's Witnesses?

by nicolaou 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  WTWizard

  Let's reword the question. How ethical is it for the Witnesses to go around condemning value creators? How ethical is it for the Witnesses to go around trying to get people to give up their lives and waste it promoting a scam?

  First, they make a promise of everlasting life, intentionally leaving out that it is going to be full of stagnation and order-following. Then they make a lot of rules to get there--the first one is not looking up alternate sources for cross-checking the accuracy of the materials. You are supposed to check it using only material that has been supplied to support the doctrine. And then they keep hounding you to do ever more--go to indoctrination sessions, join the Theocraptic Misery "School", go out in service, get baptized--

  And from there, they start adding workloads. None of that was told when you first received the message. They never told you that putting in 15 or 20 hours a month was not going to be enough. They want people to pioneer. They want people to give up college--I never saw that one in the study publication. They want people to work part time and give up material comforts (and as Danny Haszard can attest to, often necessities as well) to do more in the field misery. That was never in the study material, either! And there is the constant insinuation that it's "Pioneer--Or Die!!". That was never put in the showcase material, either.

  I believe that it is OK to plant seeds of doubt in sincere Witnesses, as long as you are honest about what is going on or what you see is plausible in the future. Telling the people the real history of the cult, the fact that the Bible has been deliberately altered by people with little or no knowledge of Hebrew or Greek, and what is developing is perfectly ethical. It is also ethical if you think, based on what you are observing, to make plausible predictions and state where you feel the organization may be heading. And, especially, encouraging them to do some more independent research about the organization can help them form their own opinions about where it's headed, and allow them the tools to make a fully integrated decision as to whether they wish to stay and be fleeced or leave.
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  nicolaou

  I am of course in agreement with the concensus view that there is nothing unethical in causing doubt in the minds of Jehovahs Witnesses, even that we have an obligation to do so.

  By the same token then, is it ethical to try and undermine the faith of other believers? Is it okay for creationists to try and dissuade me from my evolutionary point of view? Even to proselytise?

  I'd answer yes to all those questions.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Nicolaou,

  Please check your PM inbox.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Are we placing our our own agendas ahead of their needs?

  They NEED the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. The WTS doesn't supply that.
  The WTS withholds information from the beginning with literature students and children that
  grow up in the religion. The WTS hides their agenda and doesn't inform the members about
  things that they do, while it tries to expose other religions for doing the same things. The WTS
  twists quotes and data to actually deceive the members.

  That said, if the members are not getting what they need, we should do our best to supply it.
  Since most dubs won't tolerate a direct honest presentation of truth, whole truth, and nothing
  but truth- all we have left is "seeds of doubt" and partial revealings of actual truths to them.
• 

  LongHairGal

  Nic:

  I tend to agree with you somewhat about this. I am fading and have to keep my findings to myself. I have JW friends who take medicine for depression, etc. and I would never want to be the one who burst their bubble about the religion. As far as I am concerned, people can believe what they want. The religion is so stupid anyway with their constant changing of teachings. Many people there can't even keep the beliefs straight! So, I see no reason to rub in their face what I know about everything. The only thing I did slip out and tell them was about the settlement for the sex abuse cases so as to let them know their 'wonderful' pure religion has the same problems as every other religion out there. They kind of figured this is true because just about everybody there has heard 'whispers' about a case here and there.

  The only other thing I will say is that if any of these people ever found out on their OWN the real story about the religion and wanted to talk about it, I would be there for them.

  LHG
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  bavman

  In my opinion it is freedom of thought and speech that matter most. We should speak our minds freely to JDubs. Whether they have doubts after we speek to them is not a problem whatsoever. They also should be allowed to speek freely to us. I'm o.k. with that. We all should be able to research and talk openly and decide for ourselves what we will believe.
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  Scully

  By the same token then, is it ethical to try and undermine the faith of other believers? Is it okay for creationists to try and dissuade me from my evolutionary point of view? Even to proselytise?

  It's ethical so long as you are free to return the favour. It's when the creationists (or any other belief system for that matter) proselytise at us and refuse to allow us the opportunity to offer counterpoint that it becomes unethical, imo.
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  katiekitten

  Personally I wouldnt do it because I remember being a thoroughly GOOD JW, and I would have dismissed every single argument as 'satan seeking to dissuade the faithful' or 'apostacy' etc In addition I would have marked that person as someone I wouldnt bother talking to again.

  I honestly think JW's only have doubts when they come to it themselves, and the best you can do is be there for them when they need someone sane to talk to when their belief system comes crashing down. I dont think it is possible to dissuade a JW ever with any argument or logical reasoning. The brainwashing is too effective to combat by logic.

  But thats just my opinion. I couldnt be bothered to waste my energy on hiding to nothing, and at the same time have them think I was satans mouthpiece!
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  nicolaou

  Agreed Scully.

  Unfortunately many religious people feel that because they choose not to proselytise that it must be wrong for an assertive atheist like me who makes the opposite choice and tries to expose their fallacious beliefs. I have, on this forum, been called a 'proselytiser for athiesm' - as though it were wrong of me to be such!

  If others choose to hold their beliefs quietly and without bothering others then I would certainly respect that but if you come to a discussion forum, and a very active one at that, what right do you have to complain when someone tries to reason with you or attempts to place doubts in your mind?

  We all have the right to choose how vocal we are. We can be assertive without being discourteous.
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  katiekitten

  Oh if you come to a discussion forum thats totally different.

  You come to discuss and learn about other peoples opinions and to discuss, and IMO I think you only have the right to complain on a discussion forum if someone is rude to you in a personal way.

  If you dont like what is being discussed theres a magic button on the computer called an off button! You vote with your feet and leave the discussion.