Now what scriptures say something like "If you believe in me pick up your cross, stake, tree, and follow me." It all good!
Did Jesus really die on a cross?
by moomanchu 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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fresia
The cross is a pagan symbol that the papal system adopted.
Tau of the Chaledeans and Egyptians the true original form of the letter T - the initial of the name of Tammuz- which, in Hebrew, radically the same as ancient Chaledee, as found on coins, was formed as in NO. I of the accompaning woodcut and in Etruruan and Coptic. Tau was marked in baptism on the foreheads of those initiated in the Mysteries.* and was used in every variety of way as a most sacred symbol. To identify Tammuz with the sun it as joined sometimes to the circle of the sun, weather Maltese cross which the Romish bishops append to their names as a symbol of their episcopal dignity.
X which was in itself was not an unnatural symbol of Christ, the true Messiah, and which had onece been regarded as such, was allowed to go into disuse, and the Tau, the sign of the cross, the disputable sign of Tammuz, the false Messiah was everywhere substituted in its stead. The sign of the cross has always and everywhere been seen to be such an instument of rank superstition and delusion.
It cannot be right to use the sign of the cross or emblem of Tammaz, should be used in Christian, worship.
Quotes from
Kitto's Biblical Cyclopaedia, vol.i. page. 496
Sir W. Betham's Etruria, vol 1. page 54
Bunsen, vol. i page 450
snippets from the Two Babylons. by Rev. Alexander Hislop. "irst published in 1916" "ast publication 1957"
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nvrgnbk
First of allYou see this personified solar deity and his "crucifixion" on the Cross of the Sun depicted in the religious icon that predates Christianity by thousands of years.
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fresia
When I get a chance to check it out more, it is lengthy, read a bit of it, but find that it seems to be like all stories a mixture of some truth and some imagination...
I was taught this very same thing in Seminary; basically the Christians accept Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah and the Jewish people do not. Somehow that always bothered me for if there were any race or group of people who should know and recognize their Messiah it is the Jewish people
The bible gives a perfectly logical and dare i say truthful explanation as to why the jews did not except Christ as the messiah. you know why that is...they were to proud and it was them that actually murdered him, they wanted a savoir a political king because of the oppression they were under from the Romans. bible accounts give those reasons better than I and I believe it.
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Cindi_67
I really don't see the point on debating whether or not he died on a cross or stake. The cross was used to kill criminals and that is very well known in history. We can't be certain. But the point is no matter what was used the problem lies on venerating the "weapon" used to kill Jesus.
According to the Society he died on a stake. His hands were crossed one on top of the other and nailed together with a single nail, right? Then why is it that the New World Translation says: John 20:25 25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the NAILSand stick my finger into the print of the NAILS and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
Makes you wonder.
ONE NAILThe earliest writings that speak specifically of the shape of the cross on which Jesus died describe it as shaped like the letter T (the Greek letter tau), [11] or composed of an upright and a transverse beam, together with a small peg in the upright. [12]
^ "The very form of the cross, too, has five extremities, two in length, two in breadth, and one in the middle, on which [last] the person rests who is fixed by the nails" (Irenaeus (c. 130–202), Adversus Haereses II, xxiv, 4[2]).
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moomanchu
I really don't see the point on debating whether or not he died on a cross or stake.
Me either, this is what is so annoying about the WT, they do.
That is until they start losing the debate, then they claim " well, it's not really important".
about the nails, doesn't prove it wasn't a stake, hands could have been nailed on each side of the stake.
If you had to classify Jesus's death as a type of crime I believe suicide would be more
accurate than murdered as the WT states.
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heathen
I do look at it as a form of idolotry . I don't know that anybody can say for certain what type of torture device they actually used . The greek word stauros may have meant a pale or post at the time but later became a different type thing . According to the human law they executed an innocent man so that would be murder but God looked at it as the redeaming sacrifice for mankind to end all mosaic sacrifice .IMO
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keyser soze
Why does it matter?
