Just happened to notice this. The majority of who? When there was a congregational trial it wasn't supposed to be secret and behind closed doors and conducted by hired men a la a court martial.
2Cor 2:6 "This rebuke given by the majority..."
by freyd 11 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Uncertain
Or in the NIV: "The punishment inflicted upon him by the majority is sufficient for him." And then it instruct that you should forgive and comfort otherwise he will be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
I don't rememberthis showing up during my study...
-
IP_SEC
not a believer here but if I may comment.
Paul was referring to a specific person that he had talked about in the first letter/or visit. They took his words to the extreme and basically disfellowshiped the person. Now Paul is saying "guys... you took this punishment waaaaayyyy tooo far. let him back in and confirm your love for him. What you've done so far is more than enough rebuke."
He was an adulter. There is no reason to believe from the text that he had changed his course... unless you read that into Pauls words.
-
AGuest
Paul was referring to a specific person that he had talked about in the first letter/or visit. They took his words to the extreme and basically disfellowshiped the person. Now Paul is saying "guys... you took this punishment waaaaayyyy tooo far. let him back in and confirm your love for him. What you've done so far is more than enough rebuke."
Not quiite... and may you all have peace. May I respond? Thank you!
Actually, Paul had talked about this certain individual in his second letter to the Corinthian congregation, which we know as "1 Corinthians” (Paul actually wrote at least three letters to that congregation, the first being so harsh it was removed from the Bible canon by the early Council, so what we know as “1 Corinthians” is at least his second letter, and “2 Corinthians” is at least his third). I digress.
What happened here is as follows:
It was Paul who took matters to the extreme and directed the congregation to remove (i.e., expel, disfellowship) the man in question, which not only did not sit well with the congregation, but almost divided it. Because they respected Paul as a servant of God… and he pushed “the Law,” however, the congregation did as he directed them. BUT… this was NOT the way of the Christ, and so there were problems as a result. (NOTE: This particular incident was, in fact, one of the reasons that Paul and the 12 went their separate ways for approx. 14 years – they, “witnesses in all Judea and Samaria,” and he, “an apostle to the nations.” Why? Because the 12 had actually walked with my Lord and learned from him the NEW Law... of love... manifested in forgiveness and mercy and NOT judging. Paul, although having received holy spirit, had been trained as a Pharisee and out of inexperience… and “jealousy” for the congregations entrusted to him… didn’t always consult that Spirit first and so often pushed the OLD law).
Now, the 12 had tried to tell Paul that he was in error and that judging and expelling was NOT the way of our Lord (which didn’t sit well with him, as he contemporaneously referred to them as “superfine” apostles), but he wouldn’t listen… until the matter nearly tore the congregation apart. How so? Although they had went along with Paul and removed the man, the MAJORITY of the congregation knew this was wrong and not what they should have done. Because of this, they were greatly grieved, saddened… to the point that when Paul came they weren’t really happy to see him and they pretty much blamed him (and rightly so!) for the congregation’s poor morale and division.
Paul hadn’t expected this, however, and realized the seriousness of having contributed to robbing the congregation of their JOY… a “fruit” of God’s spirit! So, when they told him that THEY… the CONGREGATION… had given the man a rebuke and then FORGIVEN him… Paul… now seeing the division that he had caused… changed his position. So that where he had previously told them to JUDGE and REMOVE wrongdoers, he was now saying that if the rebuke given BY THE CONGREGATION was sufficient… FOR THE CONGREGATION… then it was sufficient… for HIM… and so, if THEY forgave the man… the HE now forgave the man… and that they should now welcome the man back with open arms!
That begs the question, then, did the congregation’s decision matter? Should it have? Let’s see:
“… if your brother commits a sin, go reprove him between you and
him alone. If he listens, you have gained your brother. But if he does
not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the
mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.
If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation.” Matthew 18:15, 16
Based on this, then, it is the congregation that has the last word… and it is only if the person doesn’t listen [to the rebuke] of the [entire] congregation, that he is to be treated “as a man of the nations and as a tax collector” (meaning, even then he is to be loved and prayed for!). Thus, the decision of the congregation TRUMPS the decision of any one, or two… or three… something the WTBTS has overstepped, big time!
Thus, Paul knew that he was a servant to the congregation, not “lord” over it. And since the congregation has rebuked the man and then forgiven him, that had to be “sufficient” for Paul. But did Paul change his position beyond this? He did, and we know this because in his letter to the Romans… which, although situated in the Bible as if written BEFORE his letters to the Corinthians, was actually written AFTERWARD, he wrote:
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought
thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.” Romans 14:10
Paul realized that he had overstepped the direction of our Lord and so backed off. He also “got it” that putting people back “under Law” was NOT supporting the commandment… or freedom… to LOVE… given them by Christ… but was, in fact, once again placing “heavy burdens” upon them… re-enslaving the… undoing what Christ gave his life to do: set us FREE from judgment and condemnation… by means of his blood!
And this is manifest by in that, contrary to the WTBTS teaching that “the light gets brighter and brighter,” the TRUE rendering is that “the PATH of the righteous gets brighter and brighter,” and that’s what occurred for Paul: where he was “blind,” he began to “see.” So that, like ANY Christian, one doesn’t start out “knowing all things”… but LEARNS… as the SPIRIT that is IN us… teaches us… and LEADS us… into “all truth.”Paul was in error (and not just on this matter), but because he was a slave of Christ and took his commission seriously, he was re-directed by the Spirit to the TRUE law of Christ, which Law said:
“STOP judging, that you may not BE judged.”
Once Paul learned that truth, he changed his admonitions... and grew spiritually... which you can see when you read his letter in their proper sequence.
Thus, as with all that is “written” and, particularly, what which is attributed to Paul… one must “test the [inspired] expression.” Because not ALL expressions originate with God, and Paul’s call for the Corinthian congregation to judge one of their own as he did was a manifestation of his inexperience and former training, versus holy spirit... and certainly did not originate with God. How do we know? We know… because a slave… is NOT greater than his master. And the Master that Paul claimed to serve… my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… is recorded to have said:
“And he said unto him, Man, who made ME a judge or a divider over YOU?” Luke 12:14
“Ye judge after the flesh; I judge NO man.” John 8:15
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world.” John 12:47
So, (1) Paul recognized that the congregation’s decision here was what mattered and (2) that the law of LOVE is what must prevail… in ALL instances… praise JAH!
May the one that has ears hear what the Spirit and the Bride keep saying:
“Come! Take ‘life’s water’… the spirit of God… FREE!”
Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with, and a slave of Christ,
SA -
eclipse
Great post, SA!
Thank you!
-
snowbird
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world.” John 12:47
Yes, thank you for such a powerful, Scriptural response, SA. I always wondered why the WTS was so skittish around the Gospel of John. Now I know it's because John flatly contradicts their shaky theology. The minds on this forum are simply devastating to the Society.
Snowbird
-
snowbird
bttt
-
ush419
The problem with the elders is that they think 3 idiots (i.e. elders) is not only equal to one congregation but greater than one congregation. It always amazes me how contrite the elders are and how gullible the cong is, they the cong stand ready to swallow anthing they are told and no one giving any thought to just what actually may be being said in biblical verse.
-
AGuest
... how gullible the cong is, they the cong stand ready to swallow anthing they are told and no one giving any thought to just what actually may be being said in biblical verse."
Indeed, and may you all have peace!
But, really, should we be amazed? Yes, for although it was prophesied that this would be the case, it was also prophesied that it would cause even the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, to be astonished:
"For among my people there have been found wicked men. They keep peering as when birdcatchers crouch down. They have set a ruinous trap. It is men that they catch. As the cage is full of flying creatures, so their houses are full of deception. That is why they have become great and they gain riches. They have grown fat; they have become shiny. They have also overflowed with bad things. Nol egal case have they pleaded, even the legal case of the fatherless boy, that they may gain success; and the judgment of the poor ones they have not taken up. 'Should I not hold an accounting because of these very things,' is the utterance of Jah, 'or on a nation that is like this should not my soul avenge itself? An astonishingsituation, even a horrible thing, has been brought to be in the land: the prophets themselves actually prophesy in falsehood; and as for the priests, they go subduing according to their powers. And my own people have LOVED it that way; and what willyou men do in the finale of it?'" Jeremiah 6:26-31.
Blind guides... leading the blind. And it is because they want to BE blind, for all they need do is buy "eyesalve" from the One who sells it and they would truly see! Revelation 3:17, 18
What can we do? We can hope that they get their "come uppance." OR... we can follow in the footsteps of Christ and, as TRUE kings and priests PROVE ourselves sons of our Heavenly Father... and plead on their behalf for forgiveness. Matthew 5:43-48
For truly... they do NOT know what they are doing. Nor did we when we were among them. Thus, we should not judge... as we do not want to BE judged. For with the same judgment that WE hand out... if we do so... we will BE judged. But if we release... we will be released. And if we show mercy... we will be shown mercy. I once thought as they did and taught as they did... because I believed as they do. Now that I have been set free... my hope is that they, too, ALL of them... will one day come to "see" the True Light of the world... and his Law.
May the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies... "excavate" ears for those who truly wish to hear (Psalm 40:6)... through His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the One from and through whom all blessings flow.
Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ... to time indefinite,
SA
-
freyd
A most eloquent analysis, SA. Now the question becomes, if Paul was wrong what do we make of what's recorded in the Bible?