They have discovered a temple complex in Turkey they call Gobekli Tepi and another in southern Iran they tentatively call Arata. Both of these sites were discovered in the last decade or two and are being dated to older then 12000 years ago. Can anyone explain how they go about dating these site since carbon 14 dating doesnt work on stone and theres no patina or very little since these places were buried? Its amazing reading and exploring subjects like these with no blinders on like when I was a JW. Its also interesting to think that if man was able to build like this then they must of learned by making smaller places in an even earlier time period.
ancient ruins
by crazyguy1 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
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cofty
Interesting thanks.
As for dating I would assume they C14 dated organic materials found in the same layer as the ruins.
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cofty
They used charcoal samples found in the lowest layer of the site.
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Island Man
"but that's impossible! Man was created just about 6040 years ago, so how can there possibly be a temple ruin that is 12,000 years old. These scientists don't know what they're talking about. The dating method is questionable. The global flood caused changes that resulted in a change in rate of radioactive decay, don't you know. So all those radioactive dating methods are questionable - never mind the fact that they all dove tail around the same period and match other forms of non-radioactive dating methods. The scientists are lying too. Satan has them under his control so they lie to contradict the truths of God's word." LOL. -
Finkelstein
One known and fairly accurate way archeologist can date ancient settlements is by using this method.
Thermoluminescence dating is very useful for determining the age of pottery. Electrons from quartz and other minerals in the pottery clay are bumped out of their normal positions (ground state) when the clay is exposed to radiation.
This radiation may come from radioactive substances such as uranium, present in the clay or burial medium, or from cosmic radiation. When the ceramic is heated to a very high temperature (over 932°F [500°C]), these electrons fall back to the ground state, emitting light in the process and resetting the "clock" to zero. The longer the radiation exposure, the more electrons get bumped into an excited state. With more electrons in an excited state, more light is emitted upon heating. The process of displacing electrons begins again after the object cools. Scientists can determine how many years have passed since a ceramic was fired by heating it in the laboratory and measuring how much light is given off. Thermoluminescence dating has the advantage of covering the time interval between radiocarbon and potassium-argon dating, or 40,000–200,000 years. In addition, it can be used to date materials that cannot be dated with these other two methods.
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kaik
There are dozen different materials that can be used in dating, not just only carbon. On geological features, there can be K-Ar dating for minerals millions years old. Carbon dating is rather accurate to 45,000 years or approximately 8 half times. Other methods like Ionimum-thorium-232 dating is widely used in sediments with halflife of 75,000 years. Besides radiometric dating, there are other methods like pollen, sediment, electromagnetic dating.
One important feature for dating the age of the early settlements is glaciation which retracted and repeated the process for period of several hundred thousands years. There was a brief period of warm-up in 25000 years ago followed by rapid glaciation in Europe, Asia, and Northern America, which ended around 10,000 BC. This glaciation period is very easy to spot in terrain, sediments, flora, fauna, and elsewhere, and can determine population migration before the last Ice Age and interglacial period.
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Half banana
Because fundamentalists imagine everything to be recent in origin it is most interesting to realise there is a plethora of archaeological material stretching back forty thousand years in the Middle East and Europe. Near my computer as I write, I have Neanderthal tools from France approximately 120,000 years old.
Reference the ruins at 11,000 years before present, surprisingly a lot is known about this time period since other nearby peoples produced cultural items such as figurines and tools. Archeologically it can be placed in the early to mid Neolithic. This is otherwise called New Stone Age (with capitals for punctuation Nazis). Golbecki Tepe is pre-pottery and this in itself indicates an early date.
As a consequence of being horribly misled by the Watchtower, after I escaped I spent some years doing prehistoric archaeology part time but I don’t claim extensive knowledge of the scientific side of dating. Archaeology is done as a multi-disciplinary research and relies on the expertise from many specialists including dating experts.
Carbon dating has improved its accuracy since it was first described and there are so many means of corroborating it, such as dendrochronology (tree ring dating) so as to know that it is accurate within a margin of just hundreds of years at the 10,000 year range. Radiometric carbon dating was used at Gobekli Tepe. They dated the bones found in the soil and the charcoal from fires. There are other methods available as well the mineral apatite which forms a patina on bone and stones and can be dated.
Pre-historic archaeology depends on knowing about the climate of the periods involved and consequences of climate are the various types of vegetation, insect and animal populations (flora and fauna assembleges) A study of the soil using sieves of increasingly small grids usually brings to light bones, rodent teeth, insect parts and pollen etc. It is the specific combination of these which pins the samples down to a specific stage in the natural geological climate period which other dating methods can confirm. Archaeologists always look at the stratigraphy, the different layers of deposits and note any disturbance. The type or style of the implements found in them such as stone tools or carvings can sometimes indicate which culture group fashioned them.
So the dating for important sites like Gobekli Tepe are made by a comprehensive scientific enquiry not from just one or two sample readings.
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Phizzy
It is thought that the "temple" still being examined at Gobekli Tepe may well have been constructed upon a site used previously for an even earlier building !
I really do not know how JW's, or others who take the Bible chronology as truth, handle this information, if they ever come across it !
By the way, I am an expert on Ancient Ruins, I live with one !
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fiddler
Gobekli Tepe is one of my favorite ancient sites to read about. Thank you HalfBanana for the info on the various ways dating is accomplished. JW's are quick to jump on just one method of dating, carbon 14 but they don't consider for a moment when various forms of dating all come up with the same conclusion about dates. I am quite jealous (in a good way) that you have had 'boots on the ground' investigating ancient sites! And really...Neanderthal tools on your desk!! Get outta here! That's great.