Inconsistency in Placing Blame?

by Mum 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mum
    Mum

    I was just reading something about the story in Genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women. Does anyone else find it peculiar that the Watchtower places no blame on the women? In the WT world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.

    For example, didn't someone post a WT form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault? When women are raped, aren't they blamed because of what they wore, where they were, etc.?

    Why did the women get off scot free in just this one case? Why not be consistent in blaming the victim(s)?

    Regards,

    SandraC

  • snowbird
    snowbird
    6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them, 6:2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. 6:3 And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years. 6:4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

    It has always been my understanding that the women had no choice in the matter. Whether wives or daughters, they simply had to go with the flow.

    Of course, I'll bet some of the scholars on here will weigh in with lots more information.

    Snowbird

  • Mum
    Mum

    Thanks, snowbird!

    So it wasn't like being raped, when one does have a "choice."

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Hmm interesting point Snow, although when I used to read that passage what always struck me was this.. How come all these perfect angels, Satan, the ones who came and took wives etc, were so dissatisified with life in heaven, hell, if they could fark up, what chance did we humans have?

    I guess "Heaven" isn't all its cracked up to be.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    So it wasn't like being raped, when one does have a "choice."

    I see your point, Mum. However, let's not forget that according to the Bible, those "men" were GIANTS!!! Nowadays, women at least stand a fairly good chance of foiling an intended rapist. But, to accuse women or children of enticing or inviting someone to rape them is inexcusable. The WTS ought to be ashamed of themselves

    Snowbird

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I don't think the WT ever really examined the issue so closely. Women were really considered
    property at the time of the writing. As mentioned, they may have had little choice.

    Usually, the men at WT are not smart enough to avoid placing blame on the woman.
    (Eve, Lot's wife, Lot's daughters) Perhaps, they didn't want to inflame women reading the
    WT.

    Besides, they wind up blaming everybody that didn't get into the ark. Even though the Bible
    never suggests that the ark was open to the public, the WT does.

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    You make a good point Mum. Your topic has also caused me to remember this as just one of many silly WTB&T Society "interpretations" of a Bible story. In the first place, the original account in Genesis doesn't say this was done by angels but rather by "the sons of God". I don't think any Bible scholar could know for sure just who the sons of God were in this strange context.

    Secondly, if they really were angels then God has some serious problems with how He creates spirit beings and boundery issues. To me the story couldn't possibly be true because I am not sexually attracted to insects and yet I am from birth just an imperfect sinner living in the same physical realm as the insects. Since I have no interest in "getting it on" with insects I can't imagine how spirit beings (angels) second only to God, who is said to have created the Universe, would be attracted to smelly ape-like humans from another realm of reality in the first place. Sure, I was programmed to be sexually attracted to females of my own kind and stink. I think human females of breeding age look great but male ants think the same thing of the hormone spurting huge quivery white queen ants ten times the males size. Not to mention just how a "spirit being" angel could have any sexual feelings at all since they are asexual and made up of spirit? The whole concept is absolute nonsense and sounds like a myth or legend created by human beings and not a revelation from God.

    If angels could become flesh and "marry" humans is there any indication that the angels were told it was wrong to do so? Why would their offspring be any better than the average human of the time who was supposidely closer to perfection back then according to Watch Tower's own interpretations? How could an angel add "superness" to the genes he is transmitting to the human egg? Chimps share 90+% of our genes but cannot produce chimp-humans so how could an angel add very much extra to the mix and still produce offspring? Wouldn't they have to replicate themselves into as exact of human forms as possible if they wanted kids? Why would sex starved angels even want kids? If I were an angel I'd just make my sperm incompatable and have sex with as many hot young chicks as possible without the complications of pregnancy, especially if I lived for eons and had to watch my children die over and over again.

    In short, the whole thing smells of egotistical humans imagining that our chicks are so HOT that even the angels would want them. This crap may have flown with ancient goat herders but anyone with half a brain today should know it is complete nonsense on every level.

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    Sweetstuff you hit on another problem I've had for years with the whole WT Society interpretation of Jehoober's sovereignty fight. If the angels, including Satan, who worked and lived with big J on a most intimate level and are near perfect couldn't stand to tow the line then how do any of us stand even the slightest chance of being faithful? If the angels are smart and know of God's full powers then wouldn't they know a rebellion would always end in their destruction? You would have to be pretty miserable in your service to prefer sure suicide to an eternity of living in God's presence. Jehoober must not be very nice if so many of His closest angelic associates decided to join Satan in his rebellion and seal their fates. It doesn't make any sense.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The myth alluded to in the brief pericope in Genesis 6 is narrated in fuller form in the Book of Watchers and the Book of Giants of 1 Enoch, where clearly the "sons of God" (bny h-'lhym is the common term in the OT for referring to the lesser deities, e.g. those in the divine assembly) are angels who descend to Mount Hermon in Syria in order to mate with the women of humankind, and are led by specific angels such as Asael and Shemihazah who are later punished and detained by the archangels under the earth. The myth in 1 Enoch was later quoted and alluded to in the NT (cf. Jude 6, 14-15, which is dependent on 1 Enoch 1:9, 10:4-12, and 15:3-7, and 2 Peter 2:4 which is dependent on Jude) and the concept of demons in the NT is similarly dependent on the Enochic description of their origin; the demons are the spirits of the giants who drowned in the Flood (losing their original bodies in the process) which is why they continually seek new bodies to inhabit and why they drowned themselves again after entering the bodies of swine (cf. Mark 5). The Enochic myth of the Watchers and the giants (which is a fuller version of the same story in Genesis) meanwhile is clearly much older than the book of 1 Enoch itself and connected with ANE myths about demigods and intercourse between the gods and humankind. This is most clearly seen in the fact that one of the giants in the Jewish Book of Giants was named Gilgamesh, the same name as the famous king-hero of Sumeria who was two-thirds god and one-third man.

    As far as blame is concerned, the misogynist Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs does view the women as guilty of perversion: "For women are evil, my children, and by reason of their lacking authority or power over man, they scheme treacherously how they might entice him to themselves by means of their looks. And whomever they cannot enchant by their appearance they conquer by a stratagem... For every woman who schemes in these ways is destined for eternal punishment. For it was thus that they charmed the Watchers, who were before the Flood" (Testament of Reuben 5:1-6). Similarly we read in another passage: "Do not become like Sodom, which departed from nature's order (enéllaxe taxin phuseós autés). In the same way also the Watchers departed from nature's order; the Lord pronounced a curse on them at the Flood. On their account he ordered that the earth be without dweller or produce. I say these things, my children, because I have read in the writing of the holy Enoch that you will also stray from the Lord" (Testament of Naphtali 3:4-4:1). The very same point is made in Jude which cited BOTH the examples of Sodom and Gomorrah and the fallen angels as instances of going after "different flesh" (heteras sarkos), i.e. in both cases mortals lusting after or having intercourse with angels. The original story in 1 Enoch also seems to place blame on the women: "As for the women, they gave birth to giants to the degree that the whole earth was filled with blood and oppresion" (9:9).

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I am currently trying to wade through the Book of Jasher. It sheds light on a lot of the happenings in Genesis. For instance, it gives the name of Noah's wife and her ancestry. It also shows just how base and corrupt Cain and Esau really were. All in all, I'm finding it a fascinating read.

    Oh, another thing. Remember how the WT always alluded to the thought that Melchizedek was actually Shem? Well, the Book of Jasher comes right out and states that Melchizedek and Shem were one and the same. Methinks the WT purposely avoided divulging its source of information so that we would continue to think they had some sort of special enlightenment. What a bunch of pseudo-scholars!!!

    Snowbird

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