Sorry, correction re: my previous post. this is the video that talks about rev 17:9 at the 32:00 minute mark.
Rev 17:9 - Thoughts?
by leaving_quietly 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jonathan Drake
@londonagain
there are other problems with this theory however, and I apologize for assuming you came up with it btw.
the theory asserts Babylon the great was Jerusalem. But in revelation, the harlot known as babylon the great has a kingdom over the Kings of the earth. The Jews, and Jerusalem, have never had such a domination in history. They were looked down on, to the point of being despised, by many roman officials and officers. Jerusalem, and in fact all of Israel, has never had a dominion over anyone but itself.
So, aside from the timeline issue, Jerusalem doesn't at all fit the discription.
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Londo111
I feel this is a problem of reading through a modern lens. We often interpret words based on what it means to us today, versus what they meant to the audience they were intended for. This is case in point with the word that in some translations is translated as ‘earth’.
When we hear the word ‘earth’, we immediately think of the planet or globe. But the primary meaning of the Greek word is land. This is how Young’s Literal Translation rendered it: “and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.'”
At the very least, when reading the Old Testament or the New, when the word earth appears in our modern translations, we need to question how the ancient audience would have understood the word and in what context. -
Bobcat
leaving_quietly said:
At the beginning of the book, at Revelation 1:10, John says that by the spirit, he came to be in the day of the Lord. Does this change the view of who these seven kings are?See the links in my post here (on another board) that bring out some research I did on Rev 1:10.
Take care,
Bobcat
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THE GLADIATOR
leaving_quietly... You need to get a life. I say this seriously and with affection. -
leaving_quietly
@Gladiator, wish I could. Working on it. Slowly, slowly, slowly. But, first, I'm busting out of the WT indoctrination. That means asking lots of questions, gathering input from a variety of sources, and forming a conclusion. It's often not the same conclusion as WTBTS (well, duh!)
@Bobcat, once again, thanks. I'm always appreciative of your research.
@Londo111, true, but since Revelation was given to John in signs, what's the saying... things may not be as they appear...
@myelaine, when I get some time and privacy, I'll watch that. Thanks.
@Jonathan Drake, yes, that's a fairly common view. I'm aware of it, but I don't currently share it. I say "currently". Revelation is such a difficult book and with a lifetime of one-sided WT teachings, it's a challenge when considering anything else. I'm trying, though.
@cappytan, you're statement is spot on. I know I don't believe WT anymore. But, just what DO I believe? That is the question I'm working on answering.
@OrphanCrow, I am still a believer. Hard to shake that. You may be completely correct. And it's a conclusion I may eventually come to agree with you on at some future point. For now, though, the journey is interesting, myth or not.
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Londo111
One thing is for sure: No group in the last 2000 years has ever made a successful prediction of the future based on the book of Revelation.
Now that I'm out of a cult or any form of fundamentalism, I’m much less vested in Revelation. It is more an occasional curiosity to me. The Watchtower’s mistake, inherited from the Adventist, is to based primary beliefs on interpretations of Revelation and Daniel, and then reinterpret the non-symbolic portions of Scripture through that lens. It should always be the other way around. -
FayeDunaway
Londo111, Im right there with you. Jws and cults love talking about the weird stuff. Most Christians talk about what matters.
i spent some time wondering what Babylon the great really meant, and came to the conclusion it meant Rome, but I'm not completely convinced that's right. there have been many theories over the centuries. I've heard America, or Catholicism or Rome, predominately.