Spycatchers

by hurricane 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  hurricane

  My daughter and son in law have just been DFd for questioning re issues we all know about, molestation, 607/587, NGO, etc. I am not going to add to the damage by shunning so my own days may be numbered ? Maybe though I will be left alone as I dont think rocking the boat is what my own elders are about and our family connections are numerous. However is there any records of elders spying to see if they can catch you out visiting family members ?

  Friends have suggested cycling to their home rather than leaving the car parked outside. They are only a couple of miles away. Seems so sad to have to operate covertly. Any experiences ? Any of you guys Dfd but still have good family contact
• 

  iveseenthelight

  My brother is D'd and he regularly visits my mum who has the book study in her home. Although she is always threatening to "cut him off". Anyway, the elders have caught him round there a few times and are always saying that they will have to take the "privalege" of the BS away from her because of this, but never have followed thru.

  I really can't believe the elders would actually spy, but then again they have nothing better to do. In my cong it seemed that if you were in good standing or if you allowed them to use your home for their crap meetings you could get away with more (another sister still associated with her friend who'd been d'd and everyone knew but she still had teh field ministry grp in her house)

  Go see your daughter, drive, cycle, walk. See what happens.
• 

  WTWizard

  It is always dangerous to do anything against the Watchtower Society once you have been baptized. The most common thing they will do is watch you like a hawk, so they can have probable grounds for a judicial hearing that works like a kangaroo court. If you are inactive or fading, you might get away with it for years before they decide to pull out the inactive publisher list.

  Generally, the ones to look out for are the butt-kissers and hounder wannabes. Those will rat you out for brownie points. Some envious people very often rat people out just to destroy their freedom as well. They are more likely to play this card if they think you have much to lose if you got disfellowshipped.

  I would weigh the cost/benefit of staying in the Tower. Is there any reason why you don't wish to disassociate or take the risk of getting disfellowshipped? If you disassociate, you are free to associate with disfellowshipped people, but any family or "friends" within the organization will shun you (they might also limit association with you if they think you're "weak"). The up side is that will put a stop to the hounding. If you fade, you might be able to associate with others (careful because there are always those who will rat you out behind your back) but you have to watch your step to avoid blowing the fade and you get hounded when you thought it was safe.

  Usually, the only reasons people find to stay is their family. If this is not the case with you, then there is probably little or nothing to lose by being reckless, or sending a disassociation letter. You are not going to live forever in paradise under their system either way, and even if you could, it would be a life of stagnation.

  Even if the hounders are not the type that will go after you, that's where the hounder-hounder comes in. This pest is the one that stirs the pot, hounding the hounders to go after those inactives that are not accounted for. Usually, that is why it can take months for them to get around to it. Sometimes the hounder-hounder will tolerate one or two missings, only to get another that has zero tolerance for not-accounted-for publishers. That is when they go after people after several years of no activity.

  Good luck.
• 

  tula

  You may need to start an Undergound Railroad. I can assure you from my own experience that they stalk and follow. But I think they would need to get wind (gossip) of it taking place before they would put out an effort.

  My JW friend also tells the story of when he was dating someone years ago that was "not approved" that a group of "investigators" came into the restaurant where he and his date were dining and sat at the table a few feet away and drank tea until he and his date left. He knew it was a deliberate intimidation.
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  iveseenthelight

  My JW friend also tells the story of when he was dating someone years ago that was "not approved" that a group of "investigators" came into the restaurant where he and his date were dining and sat at the table a few feet away and drank tea until he and his date left. He knew it was a deliberate intimidation.

  Are you sh1tting me? Are we talking about the film The Firm here? WTF?!? Damn...I'm so glad I live out of my congs territory.
• 

  Gill

  Whatever you do, be careful! Don't let them catch you visiting, but don't let that stop you visiting.

  My sister in law was recently DF'd (She still shuns us faders, but that's a long story so I won't go into it again!)

  However, my mother became terribly excited about the fact that my inlaws will be disfellowshipped if they continue to visit and talk to my sister in law!

  (Sickeningly annoying JWs can be).

  What a disgusting cult the WTBTS really is when it twists the minds of its followers to act in such a unnatural way!
• 

  carla

  There are stories of spying but hopefully they are in the minority(?) One from way back made the papers in Greece, they were trying catch a bunch of people who were going to a non approved bible study. This story made the Greek papers because the police were called because the elders used a van with paper over the windows and were filming through a hole in the paper whoever went in the house. The police caught up with them in a park trying to destroy the film. One of the ex sites has it and C of C? mine's out on loan, I don't remember. Another story more recent is (from this board?) the elders kept trying to find a guy and went to his apt, his ex girlfriend, etc.... I think it was much later he sent them a pic of him in his uniform (military) from overseas while serving our nation. Other stories I have read of elders literally being behind bushes and then confronting the 'guilty' parties. Crazy! the lengths they go to. I think these are rare cases though.

  Think about what you are even considering, not that riding your bike is a bad thing, just your reason. How insane, not you, the org in general. To think that this goes on in the US!
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  fresia

  Depends on the elders, some upstarts may want to impress and so spying does happen, they also talk to others that they think know you, usually do this by working with them in the field service.

  You're best bet is to lay low and try not to draw any undue attention to yourself. Sorry to say I wouldn't trust many in the truth, especially the elders that are the most most active.
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  Hortensia

  well, I find this pretty stunning, this whole discussion. Of course I'm rather rebellious, but can't you see how childish the whole thing is? "If you don't play by our rules, we are going to nag you, follow you, try to intimidate you at a 'judicial' hearing and then sulk and refuse to talk to you." It's time to just walk away and tell them they are f****** crazy and for your own sanity you have to get out. Then just dare them to do anything to you. Point out that it's intimidation and harassment if they spy on you and if they keep it up they'll get arrested and sued. If your family's love is conditional - they love that org. more than they love you - then move on. Find some truer friends. The WTBTS has a lot of $$$ but no power over you unless you give it to them. Start making waves, baby.
• 

  choosing life

  Never had a problem in stopping by my Dfd son's home, but I have grandchildren there too. I do know someone who was Dfd for eating a meal at a restaurant with a Dfd friend. They were turned in by a fellow dub (so kind). I would think if it's a close family member, there is always some excuse to be there. Just use your imagination.

  And I would drive and park in front of their house.