by studier 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hello this is my first post here...
and I'm already asking for something
I need Wt literature on Revelations, "little flock", and "great crowd".
Where do they get this idea from?... possibly a downloadable copy of Revelation Climax?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!
By the way... this site rocks!!!
Welcome Studier!
Glad to have you here!
To the best of my understanding, the two-class system is the result of the end not coming when Rutherford expected and there being a need to centralize control and authority and explain the numbers coming in that exceeded the magic number of 144,000.
Basically a stopgap expedient that became bedrock doctrine. Very Rutherford.
As to the pdf of the revelation orgasm, uh, climax book; can't help ya there, but I bet somebody does.
RD
Studier:
I am locked in pdf right now! Give me a couple of hours and I will provide you with a download link for the "Revelation" book. This will be a 1988 original, or a copy "before" the 70 corrections. Come back to this thread in 2 or 3 hours and scroll down the replies.
By the way, WELCOME to the board!
Cheers! Atlantis-
Studier:
Here you go!
Revelation Book PDF (Approx. 91 MB) Click the link below and when the next page appears scroll down to the bottom of the page where a small (red arrow) will point to the download link. http://www.sendspace.com/file/a2tfh5 Cheers! Atlantis-
Welcome studier, Biblically there is no such thing as an earthly and heavenly class and all Christians are destined to go to heaven. The verses shown by the JWs to support their notion of two classes of faithful are extremely tenuous.
Greendawn: Welcome studier, Biblically there is no such thing as an earthly and heavenly class and all Christians are destined to go to heaven. The verses shown by the JWs to support their notion of two classes of faithful are extremely tenuous.
Hello Studier, WELCOME of the board. The above view is not held by everyone. Some of us think the two-class system is both Biblical and chronological based upon the parable of the vineyard. It depends on what you wish to apply (see below).
General History: As a little background, everybody who was part of the Bible Students in the early days considered themselves of the heavenly class. Then eventually some of the members felt they were not of the heavenly class. They didn't feel what the heavenly class was feeling so by 1935 a second class was officially recognized, sort of a helper class they called the "Jonadabs" based upon that group who remained faithful to God even though many of Jews didn't.
Basically, even in 1931 the WTS thought the Great crowd were the gentile anointed ones, a second heavenly class, and the 144,000 were presicely as the Bible said natural, circumcised Jews. But then this changed by 1935. Here's a few paragraphs explaining the new undersanding change on the "great crowd" and "the other sheep."
Identifying
thePresent-DayBeneficiariesTODAY, in the year 1966, the ministry of the remnant of "ministers of a new covenant" is known among all nations. However, the people who particularly benefit from their ministry are what the last book of the Bible calls "a great crowd, which no man was [then] able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne [of God] and before the Lamb [Jesus Christ]." The apostle John saw the vision of this "great crowd" after he beheld the sealing of the 144,000 members of the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel. (Rev. 7:4-9) Hence this "great crowd" are not in the new covenant, yet they receive early benefits from it because of their associating at present with the remnant of spiritual Israel who are "ministers of a new covenant."
2
Who is this "great crowd"? This was long a mystery. In the very first year that the magazine Zion’sWatchTower was published the attention of readers was called to this "great multitude." (Rev. 7:9, AV) But it was thought to be a spiritual class of Christians with a heavenly destiny. The 144,000 faithful disciples become the heavenly Bride of Christ, whereas the "great multitude" was thought to be made secondary to this Bride class in heaven like bridesmaids or "companions" of the Bride class.—Ps. 45:14, 15.
3
For instance, the fourth issue of TheWatchTower, that of October 1879, said in its article "The Day of the Lord":It is then, while the "little flock," the "Bride," the "overcoming church," is thus enthroned with Jesus, and while she is inflicting the judgments written, and while the other class of Christians in the church, the carnal-minded ones, left in the world are "washing their robes," that the Lamb feeds them with truth, and leadsthem (some quickly, others more slowly) unto living fountains of water, bringing, finally, as many as willbeled, to the heavenly condition, beyond all tears, pain and sorrow, receiving them into his eternal home; and so we see them (Rev. vii. 14) "clothed in white robes and palms in their hands:" and we are told: "These are they that came out of" . . . "the great tribulation, and have washed their robes," etc.; "Therefore are they before the throne and serve God in his temple."—Paragraph seven.
Paragraph nine applies Psalm 45:13 to them as being "companions" of the heavenly Bride of Christ.
4
The next article of the same issue, entitled "Reconciliation of the World," speaks of this great company and says, in paragraph twenty-four: "The ‘little flock,’ or bride company, and the company who come out of the great tribulation (Rev. vii 14,) will ever be given spiritual bodies."
5
This early view prevented the real "great multitude" or "great crowd" from receiving the due attention until God’s own time. It caused the remnant of the 144,000 "ministers of a new covenant" to look for a great company of spirit-begotten Christians to come out of Babylon the Great during the final "great tribulation" upon the whole world, washing their robes of identification clean and shedding their own blood in martyrdom. They were expected not to survive the battle of Armageddon on earth, but to die before its finish. From such a viewpoint the remnant kept looking for the wrong thing.6
In the year 1914 a tribulation greater than any that had yet come since the Flood came. This did not surprise the remnant, for they knew that the Gentile Times, or "the appointed times of the nations," would end about October 1 of the year 1914.
7
World War I dragged on for years, and the remnant were persecuted as never before, but they saw no "great multitude" come enmasse out of the many religious systems of Christendom. Then, as World War I neared its climax, on Sunday, February 24, 1918, the then president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society delivered in Los Angeles, California, the talk "The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living May Never Die." It held out a hope of never dying off the earth but of surviving the "great tribulation" that had begun on the earth, clear through the battle of Armageddon and into the new order of things under God’s heavenly kingdom by Christ. This talk did not identify the earthly survivors of Armageddon as being the "great multitude" of Revelation 7:9 (AV). It considered them just as people in general who are devoted to righteousness, even though they were not dedicated to God or were not spirit-begotten.8
Five years later, in the same city of Los Angeles, on Sunday, August 26, 1923, the same speaker addressed an audience of more than 30,000 on the subject "All Nations Marching to Armageddon, But Millions Now Living Will Never Die." This speech was the climax to an eight-day convention of Jehovah’s people. On the previous afternoon he spoke to the convention on Jesus’ parable of the "Sheep and Goats" as given in Matthew 25:31-46. In this talk he identified the "sheep" class as being the earthly class that will survive Armageddon into God’s new order under the heavenly kingdom. At the close of the talk he read and moved adoption of a Resolution of seventeen paragraphs, the last of which appealed to the sheeplike people, "that they individually and collectively declare themselves on the side of the Lord and in sympathy with his cause, and be ready to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom which he has prepared for them from the foundation of the world." However, no specific effort was made to gather such "sheep."
9
At that time Bible Students thought that the new covenant as foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34 did not apply to the 144,000 spiritual Israelites but was to be made with the natural Jews after the battle of Armageddon. Lectures were given to large public audiences on "Jews Returning to Palestine," and in October of 1925 the book ComfortfortheJews was published. Under the subheading "The New Covenant," pages 97-103 discussed this covenant and reserved it for the natural Jews regathered to Palestine. The third paragraph from the end of the book said: "The day of jubilee is come; the good news must be given to the people of Israel and then to all the peoples of the earth.—See Psalm 89:15."10
Later the material of ComfortfortheJews was embodied in a large clothbound book entitled "Life," and on July 15, 1929, this book was released to us, to circulate mainly among the Jews.
11
On page 331, under the subheading "All Nations," it said:Not only will the Jews be favored with restitution under the terms of the new covenant, but that favor will be extended to all the peoples and nations of the earth. God’s unchangeable promise is, ‘In thy seed shall all the peoples and nations of the earth be blessed.’ That seed is The Christ. (Gal. 3:16, 27-29) This is another reason why the "remnant" of the Christians now on earth have the keenest interest in restitution.
Farther along in the last chapter, pages 340, 341 said:
God promised the land of Palestine to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . . . They must be resurrected in order that the promise of God may hold good. . . . Jesus declared that these men should be in the kingdom as representatives thereof on earth.—Matt. 8:11, 12. The Scriptures warrant the conclusion that Jerusalem will be the city of first importance on the earth. Long ago God chose to put his name there. When he has restored his faithful men of old, who at all times were loyal and true to him, and has brought them into the land of Palestine, it would be the most reasonable thing that Jerusalem would be made the earthly seat of the government.
12
Thus, in the year 1929, more attention and interest were being paid to the natural, circumcised Jews than to the "sheep" of Jesus’ parable on the sheep and the goats. These "sheep" were made secondary to the Jews, and after Armageddon they were to line up under the Jews. No special effort was made to gather them at that time into the "one flock" of the "Fine Shepherd," Jesus Christ.
13
In 1930, the book Light, in two volumes, gave a verse-for-verse commentary on the book of Revelation, but it still applied the "great multitude" of Revelation 7:9-17 (AV) to a spirit-begotten class of professed Christians who, after a martyr’s death at Armageddon, would each "get life as a spirit creature," but secondary to the Bride of Christ. (Volume 1, pages 91-97) Due to this there was no concentrated attention being given to the earthly "sheep" class, the "other sheep" of the Fine Shepherd.—John 10:16; TheWatchTower, October 15, 1923, page 310, paragraph 33.14
In 1931 the first volume of the book Vindication was published. In dealing with chapter nine of Ezekiel’s prophecy it said concerning the people who were to be marked in their foreheads and spared from execution: "The ones marked could not refer to the ‘great multitude’, or ‘tribulation’ class, because . . . they will not be spared in the great time of trouble, but, on the contrary, they are appointed to die. . . . They will not be carried through the time of trouble. They will be forced into the time of trouble to take their stand on the side of the Lord, but must die in order to live as spirit creatures." Then the book Vindication goes on to identify the ones marked as being the earthly "other sheep," the "sheep" of Jesus’ parable of the Sheep and Goats, which "sheep" will survive the battle of Armageddon into God’s new order.
15
In speaking of the marking work, page 111 of Vindication said that "this work of giving the testimony is not for the purpose of converting the people of the world and bringing them into some organization, but it is to make known the fact that those who desire to flee from the wicked organization of Christendom may do so and declare themselves on the Lord’s side, and thus be in line to be brought through the time of trouble, when the slaughtering begins." Thus no real gathering and organizing of these marked ones, the "other sheep," was encouraged, even in the year 1931, when the remnant of the 144,000 spiritual Israelites embraced the name "Jehovah’s witnesses."16
Very plainly, the natural, circumcised Jews and the supposed "great multitude" of second-rate spirit-begotten Christians were diverting the attention of the spiritual remnant. However, in the year 1932 volumes two and three of the book Vindication were published, dealing with the remaining twenty-four chapters of Ezekiel’s prophecy. By means of these books Jehovah revealed to his people that the prophecies about restoration did not apply to the earthly, natural, circumcised Jews or Israelites, but applied to the faithful remnant of spiritual Israel since the year 1919 C.E.—See Volume Two, from page 253 on to the end.
17
This explanation took the spotlight off the Jews, but it still left the matter of the new covenant to be settled and it also left expectations of the emergence of a spirit-begotten "great multitude" of professed Christians who needed to be helped out of Babylon the Great, particularly Christendom. Volume Three of Vindication said that this secondary spiritual class was pictured in Ezekiel’s prophetic temple, which is described in his prophecy, chapters forty to forty-eight.—See pages 240, 265-269.18
Two years later, in 1934, increased understanding came. In the issue of April 15, 1934, of TheWatchtower (page 117, paragraph 10) it declared that the new covenant will not be made with the natural, circumcised Jews in Palestine after Armageddon, but that the new covenant is in force now, with the spiritual Israelites. It said: "The new covenant was made . . . with and for the benefit of spiritual Israel. . . . Natural Israelites having broken the terms of the law covenant made in Egypt, it would be entirely inconsistent for God to make with that same people a new covenant, which new covenant is higher and more exalting than the old law covenant. This of itself would preclude the conclusion that the new covenant is made with the natural descendants of Abraham." (See also the book Jehovah, pages 171-173, edition of 1934.) Such correction of understanding brought great joy to the remnant.
"OTHER
SHEEP"ANDBAPTISM19
Real encouragement, too, was given to the "other sheep" in the Watchtower issue of August 15, 1934. In ancient times those earthly "other sheep" were pictured by the non-Israelite man named Jonadab the son of Rechab and the friend of King Jehu of Israel. So the article entitled "His Kindness" spoke of the "other sheep" as Jonadabs or the Jonadab class. In paragraphs 34, 35 it said:Should a Jonadab consecrate himself to the Lord and be baptized? Answer: Most assuredly it is proper for a Jonadab to consecrate himself to do the will of God. No one will ever get life without doing that. Water immersion is merely a symbol of having made a consecration to do God’s will, and that would not be out of order. . . . The time is now here for the instruction of the Jonadab or "millions" class, which mean one and the same thing.
And then the Watchtower article went on to tell how members of the anointed remnant should conduct meetings with the Jonadab class, saying: "Such studies are now essential and particularly for the benefit of those of the Jonadab company, that they may learn what is the will of God concerning them."
20
However, three months later in that same year, or on November 15, 1934, the book Jehovah came off the Society’s printing presses in Brooklyn, New York, and on page 182 it still expressed belief in a secondary spiritual class, yet expected to come out of Babylon the Great and take a stand on Jehovah’s side. Accordingly, though the book pointed out that the new covenant did not apply to the natural, circumcised Jews, pages 181, 182 said:
The spiritual house of Israel embraces all who, trusting in the blood of Christ Jesus as the redemption for man, have made a covenant to do the will of God and have been begotten of God, and this necessarily includes all spirit-begotten ones, particularly the "little flock." . . . This prophecy is concerning a new covenant to be made with the house of spiritual Israel, meaning that it embraces all of spiritual Israel, including all the spirit-begotten ones, and with the house of Judah, thus identifying the Kingdom company, which company is to be associated with Christ Jesus, who is "the Lion of the tribe of Judah". (Rev. 5:5)—See also page 185, paragraph two.
21
Thus this secondary class of spirit-begotten spiritual Israelites was still diverting the attention of the remnant late in 1934 and was taking a place of greater importance than the Jonadabs or earthly "other sheep" class, who were to be marked in their foreheads. (Ezek. 9:4) So these marked ones were not specifically invited to attend the celebration of the Lord’s Supper on Nisan 14, 1935.DISCERNING
THEGREATCROWD22
However, great joy was now near for the Jonadab company or "other sheep." A five-day general convention of Jehovah’s witnesses was announced. Beginning with the April 1, 1935, issue of TheWatchtower the announcements thereof said: "Again TheWatchtower reminds its readers that a convention of Jehovah’s witnesses and Jonadabs will be held at Washington, D.C., beginning May 30 and ending June 3, 1935. It is hoped that many of the remnant and the Jonadabs may find it convenient to attend the convention. Heretofore not many Jonadabs have had the privilege of attending a convention, and the convention at Washington may be a real comfort and benefit to them." (Page 98) "This is a service convention, and it is expected that all the remnant and the Jonadabs will participate in the service."—Page 110.23
That Washington, D.C., convention indeed proved to be of benefit to the Jonadabs. On the second afternoon of this convention (May 31), the then president of the Watch Tower Society addressed the visible audience at the Washington Auditorium and also invisible audiences over radio stations WBBR and WHPA on the subject "The Great Multitude" as foretold in Revelation 7:9-17 (AV). In this speech he pointed out that the long-discussed secondary spiritual class did not exist and that the picture of the "great multitude" applied to no such class. Rather, the "great multitude" was made up of the modern-day Jonadabs, and these had to show the same degree of faithfulness to Jehovah God as the spiritual remnant.24
The unspeakable joy that the Jonadabs at Washington, D.C., experienced that afternoon was spread to all this class around the globe by the publishing of this revelation in the article "The Great Multitude," in two parts, in the Watchtower issues of August 1 and 15, 1935. Later the YearbookofJehovah’sWitnesses for 1936 (page 63) said: "This revelation stirred the brethren and stimulated them to renewed activities, and everywhere throughout the earth come the reports exhibiting joy in the fact that the remnant now have the privilege of carrying the message to the great multitude, and these together working to the honor of the Lord’s name."
25
In the congregations of Jehovah’s people larger privileges of service were opened to the members of the Jonadab class or "great multitude" when the Watchtower issue of May 1, 1937, page 130, announced concerning the companies or congregations:When there are none in the company capable of filling tie places of company servants or service committees and there are Jonadabs who have the ability and zeal, let the Jonadabs be placed on the service committee and give them opportunity to serve.
How providential this arrangement was for the future can now be seen, twenty-nine years later, when the remnant of the "ministers of a new covenant" have dwindled to about 11,500 and it has become necessary for the "other sheep" to provide the overseers and ministerial servants of most of the more than 24,000 congregations world wide.
26
At the celebration of the Lord’s Supper following the above announcement concerning "Company Servant," the Jonadabs were specifically invited to attend as companions of the remnant on April 15, 1938. (TheWatchtower, February 15, 1938, page 50) But a grand climax of joy for the Jonadab class or "other sheep" came in 1950. On Saturday night, August 5, 1950, at the international assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses in Yankee Stadium, New York City, it was revealed from the Scriptures that competent men among the "other sheep" now being gathered may be appointed as "princes in all the earth" after the battle of Armageddon along with those referred to in Psalm 45:16.—TheWatchtower, October 1, 1950, pages 364, 365; November 1, 1950, pages 414-417.
27
Thus at last the dedicated, baptized members of the "great multitude," the "other sheep," were finding their proper place in association with the anointed remnant of "ministers of a new covenant." The Fine Shepherd, the Lord Jesus Christ, began bringing in his "other sheep" into the "one fold" where the remnant of the "little flock" were already gathered, that there might be even now "one flock" under "one shepherd."—John 10:16; Luke 12:32.From 1975 Yearbook pp 116-122.
JC
THANK Y0U ATLANTIS!!
That will be a great help
Any other recommendations? or is that all I should need?
Thank you too JCanon
I appreciate all the info!
Thank you too JCanon
I appreciate all the info!
UR welcome! Not sure exactly what you need this for. If simply for historical background on old and current beliefs then you should have enough of a general idea. If it is ever to lead to some discusion about the two-class system in the Bible versus everybody going to heaven, which is a topic for debate you should know about some applying the Vineyard Workers parable to the 1935 appearance of the "other sheep" along with other criticisms. So just for the shelf for future use here's how these contradictions come forth on the current WTS view of the "othersheep" and the "little flock", just FYI. Vineyard Workers: Briefly, the vineyard workers are sent into the field and they work for 11 hours and then are paid after sundown during the 12th hour. The first-hour workers who are hired agree to a penny, which is considered the heavenly calling. But from the third through the 11th-hour workers they are not told what they would receive, "whatever is fair", but presumably less than a day's wage. Turns out, though, the master ends up giving ALL the workers the same day's wage, the penny, and thus the invitation to heaven. In the Bible a half hour is 42 months (3.5 years) so an hour is 7 years. The total number of working years fits into a generation of 80 years if you start at 1914; that is, 77 years from 1914 to 1991. But of note, the third-hour workers would have been on the scene for one hour after 21 years and 21 years after 1914 is 1935, the year the "Jonadabs" or "other sheep" were officially recognized as a second class in the organization. So the point here is, while YES, clearly everybody is offered the same prize of heavenly life, not all understand that calling within the WTS organization, which becomes a two-class system from 1935 through 1991. So while clearly in the Bible there is the heavenly opportunity open to all in the end, for the witness organization there are several years when there are definitely two groups, the older group knowing in advance they would go to heaven and a second group starting with the third-hour workers that only find out they will be going to heaven after the harvest work is over. So there is some Biblical basis for the two-class system applied to some scripture by some. The "Other Sheep" and "Little Flock" missapplied by JWs: You may have noticed this. When Christ comes, he comes to a flock that is mixed with sheep and goats. He has to separate the two. The goats will be destroyed and the sheep saved. These sheep coming out of this mixed flock are called a "little flock" to which the master says, "Have no fear little flock, for I intend to give you the kingdom." But then he notes he as "other sheep not of this flock", those too I will bring and both the little flock and the other sheep would thus become one flock and one shepherd. So note, the "other sheep" are already separate and elsewhere from the little flock. When we put this into the context of the ten slaves Jesus sends out, where the evil slave organization buries the money given without even putting it in the bank to collect interest, that invested coin is given to the slave with the largest return of ten times. The coin from the evil slave is given to this slave. It is noted, "But this one has ten coins!" to which they are old, "he who has much, more will be given." Thus we learn two important things: (1) there is more than one organization Christ is gathering into besides the WTS organization, which is clearly the evil slave organization, and (2) Those faithful within the WTS organization, the original sheep and goats organization, are taken out of that organization and joined with the largest "other sheep" organization gathering Christ's followers. Thus the infrastructure of the organization is abandoned after the sheep are taken out. So the OTHER SHEEP are not the great crowd or earthly class, but separately gathered anointed ones. As far as the "great crowd" of Revelation goes, indeed, these represent an infinite number who survive Armageddon and who will be assisted by the 144,000 anointed class who serve as kings and priests. So in this sense there is another two-class system that goes into effect after Armageddon, those of the anointed heavenly class and those of the earthly class. Only the anointed don't go to heaven until after judgment day is over. They, along with Christ rule on the earth during those thousand years. Then after Satan is let loose after the thousand years for a short while (likely 40 years), then JUDGMENT DAY begins, where the second resurrection takes place and everybody is judged. After all that judging is done and death is finally no more, it is then that the anointed and Christ on the earth in fleshly bodies become spirit angels. (1 Cor 15:54-56). So in review, the "little flock" are just the faithful group of anointed witnesses who are separated out of the apostate WTS and joined with others Christ is gathering through the work of the other 9 slaves sent out in 1914 to do business. The "other sheep" are those gathered by these other 9 slaves, and is not a reference to the earthly class who survive Armageddon, which Revelation calls the "great crowd." So some will claim quite adamantly here that there is just one hope, the heavenly hope. They are partially correct, at some point, theoretically everyone is considered for that grand hope, but everyone does not make the grade and this is a special, limited number. These are those who strive for that kingdom or show extraordinary "jewel like" heart quality who are chosen, they are like special gems. These give up their personal lives to try to help others attain eternal life in the Paradise earth. So ultimately there are three possible destinies for all of mankind. (1) To become part of the Bride of Christ which end up as angels in heven with Christ. That's the greatest outcome. (2) To be granted eternal life in the paradise earth, which is not bad considering the third alternative, which is (3) Death in Gehenna. Hope this was helpful if you were interested in more than the historical basis for the WTS' false application of "other sheep" and "little flock." JC
JC that was great info, but now I'm confused.
Biblically where do these beliefs come from?
For example how would they be proofed by bible verses?
By the way "need" this for my own insatiable curiosity! ( I am interested in any and all views, but give more weight to those that are backed up soundly by scriptural study.)
