When was Jesus born?

by Anti-Christ 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    Distinguish between the Bible and Jesus Christ

    You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    John 5:39 (New International Version)

    But without the Bible, we would not know of Jesus Christ, right? You could say 'yes, we would', because he would have revealed himself to each and every one of us if it wasn't for the Bible, but still - where outside of the Bible do we learn about Jesus (who and what he is and was, I mean)? The Bible is where he chose to reveal himself to all of mankind, is it not?

    If you're willing to disregard certain scriptures, then this becomes somewhat of a 'chicken or egg' question, IMO. Without the scriptures we wouldn't know about him (his personality and works, etc.), but now I hear that the scriptures aren't really important because he's omnipresent anyway, and reveals himself to us today. You could say "it's not 'either or', it's 'both and' ", both Jesus and scriptures. But then I don't see how one can disregard certain scriptures, or how to determine when we've suddenly disregarded too many scriptures.

    You took the words right out of my mouth.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Anti...

    Here is a thread I started last Christmas regarding December 25th. You may find the information I found most interesting..I sure did!! It will probably answer your question.

    Here is the link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/126037/1.ashx

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    JC can you do a cliff's notes version? a summary of sorts? in a nutshell (with a box around it) for those who have lack of time and lack of concentration. Something more helpful to those of us who just want a short forthright answer? have mercy on the slow....

    Sure.

    One way I like to approach this is simply to observe that you can't have a trial at noon and it get dark at noon and Jesus impaled at 9 a.m. or 9 p.m. and it not be two days. Obviously the trial should be the day before at noon and the darkness to occur the following day at noon. The Bible is quite clear Jesus dies on a day of perparation before a sabbath day, so just on this basis we're looking at the trial on Wednesday, Nisan 19 and Jesus death on the 20th. Why? Because Passover is eaten on the sabbath day of the first day of unfermented cakes, for an intents and purposes on the 15th, not the 14th. But there is confusion regarding that because some don't understand the technical reference is that the DATE changes at midnight at which time passover ends. Even so we know that the Jews left Egypt that very night the same night they ate passover and that is the 15th. If this is equivalent to the time in the gardent when Jesus got arrested then we know he was arrested on the 15th. That means preparation for passover on the 14th is not an option. The next option is the next day of preparation, which is the 20th. That was on a Thrusday. But here we get a confirmation that this is the correct date because Jesus is said to have died one day before a sabbath day and rise one day afterwards and yet be in the grave for parts of "three nights" (Matt. 14:40). That can only happen if you have two sabbath days back to back. That is the situation in 33 CE, the following weekend had two sabbath days in a row, the special holiday sabbath of passover falling on Friday the 21st and then the regular sabbath on the 22nd. So everything works out perfectly when Jesus' death is correctly dated to Nisan 20th, Thursday, 33 CE.

    The only issue really is the poor translation of John 19:14 where "de" is used in front of preparation which is used to indicate "nearly" or "just before". Thus it was not actually on the day of preparation that the trial took place, but instead the afternoon before preparation was to begin. The Jewish secular days began in the evening or at nightfall, so this was the last division of the day before the next day. John 19:14 thus is better translated: "It was almost preparation for passover. The hour was about the sixth." When Jesus is being placed into the tomb and preparation is mentioned, the "de" is not used. Therefore, there is absolutely zero conflict between the synoptic gospels and John as some inadequately expert scholars claim.

    Here's a confirmation calendar for April of 33 CE. You can see where the full moon falls on a Friday.

    Again, in case you want to double-check the scriptures, you should include the historical scenario of the Jews not changing the calendar date until Midnight. That means that the sabbath days that began at sunset were made up of two calendar days. In the case of the first day of unfermented cakes, it would begin in the evening of the 14th and end in the evening of the 15th, with the date change at midnight. That's why passover is always spoken of as being eaten on the 14th and the festival of unfermented cakes being celebrated during the day of the 15th. But it's all still the same sabbath day. Passover is eaten on the sabbath day of the 1st day of unfermented cakes. Once you understand that, then there is no problem figuring out precisely when Jesus ate passover, was arrested, had his last trial, was impaled, when it got dark and when he died.

    JC

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    OK it's well established that Christendom has the actual date wrong why doesn't God send a message by virtue of his holly spirit to correct the situation

    As the Bible says at the time Christ arrives there will be a period of spiritual darkness in the world and among God's own people. This is the darkening of the sun and moon and stars that are mentioned "immediately after the tribulation of those days, meaning after the Holocaust." This means that God can give the insight to his faithful followers, which he has. This is the scenario in the Bible where Lazarus who represents those approved by the Father have all the knowledge and the Rich Man, the evil slave who was entrusted with feeding the sheep but who ultimately failed in the end, being too concerned about building more Kingdom Halls (i.e. bigger storehouses) is in spiritual torment because of all the false teachings. The Rich Man's tongue is dried out, he has no more fluent truths to give out to the organization. He hopes Lazarus will give him some of his new truths but that doesn't happen.

    And secondly why was the son of God born in a dirty manger/barn with allot of donkey and goat shit all over the place, doesn't sound very sanitary.

    It wasn't a dirty manger. Remember the sheep were out in the fields and pastures this time of the year, so the stables or booths were nice and clean. Plus, who is to say it wasn't a brand new stable that had never been used before?

    You think the son of God would be born in a cleaner and better environment, like in a nice house on a Ikea mattress, something like that

    The circumstance of Christ's birthplace is significant. The Festival of Booths, where the people make booths to stay in instead of the home represents the time when God comes to dwell with mankind in the form of his representative, his son. But he doesn't come into their homes but dwells with them in booths, the kind that they make for their animals. Thus when Christ arrives at the fist and second coming, he does so outside the formal arrangement of the temple or the organization. He's not a high priest or a king. Even at the second coming when he does come to be king-priest, it's not as an active elder or overseer in the congregation, but outside the congregation. So it was significant to symbolize this by having Jesus be born outside the home and then placed in a temporary booth shelter. JC

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    JC, you should put a groundhog coming out of that hole. Or how about an eyeball? That would be gnarly!

    YES, I'm afraid I do need to change my avatar. It's a GIF I saw of the four phases of the moon that I thought was rather classic and neat, but I don't have the program to run it and it just turned out as the new moon. I'll change it in a few days so this post makes sense.!!! tee hee. Probably to this: alt But that might not work either....??? Cheers, LC

  • hibiscusfire
    hibiscusfire
    anti c:

    It does not really matter when Jesus was born...the point is HE was born.

    When was your great, great, great, great grand uncle born?

    hibie

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    Hi Hibie. I get your point, I know that if an important man came to be, it is not the exact date of birth that is important but what he did in life, I get it but what I don't get is why do some people believe really hard in the bible, that it is from the all knowing, loving and all powerful god but in the same time it is full of contradiction, scientific inaccuracies and very questionable morals. I used to believe in the bible very, very much but after learning a lot of things about it, I now see that it was not what I was lead to believe. It was very hard to accept these facts and I think it is obvious why but eventually I had to accept reality or continue to live in a fantasy land. What really gets me mad is that a lot of religious leaders know a lot of these facts but they hide theme from their followers and it is obvious why. Now that I know a lot more about the bible and the lies, I feel much better and freer. The contradiction about Jesus birth is only the tip of the iceberg. I will leave it up to you to figure out the rest, when you are ready. If you want some information, feel free to p.m. me.

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