Glacial Change/Dec.1, 2001 WT

by metatron 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  nytelecom1

  all df'd people should die..

  cuz the wt told me so
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  Patriot

  Incredible
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  Room 215

  The mind-set of anyone who would be ``stumbled'' over a prayer that beseeches God to bless a repentant sinner's restoration, is beyond comprehension.
  While on the the subject of prayer, when's the last time you heard a JW publicly obey Jesus' command to ``pray for your enemies?''
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  AMNESIAN

  They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God's inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with his will.-ps 44:21, ec. 12:14

  While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the simmer has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one. For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private...

  So [again with the] Brother or Sister "Some" in the congregation would be "puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one" when all the friggin' prayer requests is that the so-called erring one "...may draw strength from God's inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with his will"???

  In what way does setting such a code of what is considered acceptable conduct reconcile with a Creator (and Son) who again and again calls for erring ones to return to him no matter what they've done? Praying for their repentance by name in a public prayer ---even if no one ever dares do it--- is specifically prohibited by the Pharisees because "some" in the congregation who call themselves true Christians would be stumbled by a public request that begs for such ones to "return to God who mercy shows and who forgives in his own large way"???

  I am not being sarcastic or facetious when I say that this completely astounds me. (Btw, it was the whole business of who we were "allowed" to pray for that finally blasted the lid off the many doubts I'd vigilantly kept under lock and key for quite some time.)

  -AMNESIAN
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Metatron,
  thanks for posting this one.

  I'm inclined to agree with Wannahelp's comment:

  "...Maybe the Dec 1, 2002 WT will have an article saying that as long as you meet in private, as to not stumble others in the congregation, it is ok to spend some time with DF'd relatives, so you can observe if they are repentant or not.."

  Some subtle change....???

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  JeffT

  At my church we pray all the time for people having troubles in their lives. We have prayer request cards that get turned over to a team of people that have agreed to accept them. Turning in something like "pray that I overcome my drug addiction" will get you prayed for, not turned over to a judicial committee. This is our understanding of what Jesus meant when he said to take your brother before the congregation.
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  Nicodemus

  Actually, this is not new information:

  w79 10/15 31 Questions from Readers
  When a person is disfellowshiped, it may not then be clear whether the sin will ‘incur death’ or not. But in time evidence of repentance and turning around may begin to appear. (Compare Acts 2:36-38; 3:19.) That might first be observed by someone close, such as a husband’s detecting it in his disfellowshiped wife’s attitude and conduct. So he may conclude that it seems she has not committed ‘deadly sin’ and he may be moved to pray for her. He might pray that if Jehovah—who reads hearts—finds a basis for pardoning her error, may God’s will be done. Also, he might express to God his hope that she draw strength from the Bible so as to overcome her weakness.

  While someone personally may feel that he can approach God regarding a disfellowshiped person, it would not be fitting to do so in public or congregational prayers. It should be appreciated that others hearing such prayers may not yet know of the evidence indicating repentance. Or they may not yet be convinced that the person has not committed a “sin that does incur death.”

  To my knowledge, this was the last official statement in the Watchtower, previous to the one quoted on this thread, and was never reversed.
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  lauralisa

  is there any scriptural basis used to justify the dictate to NOT pray for a DF'd person?

  I mean a real one, and not some extrapolation of the context of some scripture.

  Thanks in advance.

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
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  Gopher

  Lauralisa,

  It would be difficult to find such a scripture. The way DF'ing is carried out (shunning to the extreme) in WT-land is not clearly supported by scripture.

  So it amounts to a man-made rule regarding a man-made situation.

  GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
  Mark Twain (1835-1910)
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  lauralisa

  acknowledged, Gopher, and thanks

  I had a vast collection of "bound volumes" a year ago. When I needed to move, I was so bitter at that point that I pitched the lot of it. Now I kinda wish I had kept them, so I could do research on issues such as this.

  It never ceases to amaze me how long the tentacles are; when you trace them back to the supposed source, there is nothing there.....

  lauralisa

  It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)