Thanks a lot for your well written and objective report. You did not intrude into the commentary by inserting your own conclusions, leaving us to decide this for ourselves.
Great work.
Cheers
Transcript Of My KH's Discussion Of Sept. 2007 KM QFR
by Justitia Themis 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DannyHaszard
http://www.topix.net/forum/who/jehovahs-witnesses GO to where defiant naughty dubs are posting
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Doubting Bro
Justitia ,
Were you at my meeting?? Just kidding but the transcript was very similar here. I had a feeling it was going to go down hard core and that's what happened. It was interesting to note that all the elders commented (which never happens on a 15 min KM part). Another difference was that it was really hammered on here that we should use NOTHING for spiritual research that wasn't produced by the WTS.
I really thought that the brother conducting was going to try to moderate a little but he added very little commentary.
Quite frankly, my congregation would do very little research anyway and was probably relieved that they could now use the excuse that the WTS doesn't "endorse" it.
It was the most surreal meeting I've ever been to. However, the effect on my wife was very interesting and I'll post that under a seperate thread.
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sir82
as it says at the beginning of the paragraph, we are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement in all these different things, so it’s ample.
Try this approach on your field service report.
"Brother X, I notice you haven't turned in a field service report this month".
"Oh don't worry, I had ample time. Here, I'll write it down for you. Right there on the paper, under 'hours', I put the word 'ample'."
"Oh, well, since it is written down, and says ample, that's good enough for me! Sorry to have bothered you."
Idiots.
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Awakened07
Thanks for that, Justitia.
Brings me back too, but it's been so long now that I'm surprised at how robotic the replies are. Not that it isn't very recognizable, because it certainly is. I find it very sad now. The "worst part" is, I know how they're thinking. This took me right back. Always afraid of outside input, always wondering if something is OK to read or if it could lead to bad influence. Always suspicious if a source is not from the WBTS. Pretty much everything not from WBTS is from Satan in some way or another. My heart sinks when I read this.
On the upside, if memory serves me right, this is how those meetings always are, but people actually do think for themselves - just not aloud. Not all of them of course, and mostly not those who are very eager to reply, but many in the congregation probably got something to think about during this study, and I'm sure this will even "stumble" a few of them.
But seriously - that was hard to read. I mean - what's the point in these "discussions" anyway? Brother reads paragraph, sister or brothers replies to question on the paragraph with the exact same statement that's in the paragraph. And around and around we go. I can only think of this as brainwashing. Something is drilled into you and repeated ad nauseum, until it becomes fact.
Sad.
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AWAKE&WATCHING
Wow, could he sell it or what?
Geez, that made me sick to my stomach, I just want to cry.
Some will see through it though.
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erandir
Thanks, Justicia, for taking the time and effort to write this up! It is greatly appreciated!
Just a few comments on this nauseatingly conducted part:
so it doesn’t sound like some upbeat thing where they all get together to tell wonderful things to one another, but it sounds on the critical side of things, so we need to beware.
So he is saying everyone needs to beware critical thinking. Not a good sign.
Very good, point, that it a key point, it is independent study.
So independent study is also deemed bad although in the past independent study was good, even using extra-societal publications such as Strong's Bible Commentary and such.
They don’t stop there, they have all these conferences and they produce publications to produce their findings. To supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings by our literature. That’s a dangerous thing.
What conferences? Which publications? And supplementing the society's literature is dangerous? What is dangerous is narrowing one's mind to a pin point and following the society's "lead" to the letter. They want us to put our brain on a shelf and replace our thinking ability with the collective brain of the 12 GB members and their lackeys!
I couldn’t imaging how much time it would take to produce literature or hold a conference and conduct these study groups, all independent of our meetings and reading the publications the magazines and everything else that we have.
Yeah, right...that elder is implying that he spends all his time studying the society's literature and studying for all the meetings and has no time for anything else like "worldly" entertainment, hobbies, or any of the slew of other stuff the society says from which to buy out the opportune time for bible study and reading.
1 Cor. 1: 10, so we can be fitly united in the same mind and the same line of thought.
Here it is in the bible, the scripture they use to justify the brainwashing of the JW's.
it’s verging on sectarianism and not, definitely not keeping in mind with that united thought at all.
So basically our choice if we want to be considered good witnesses is either to be assimilated or to retain our measure of independent, critical thinking.
And, the faithful slave is working under the direction of Jehovah holy spirit, and his word, so we don’t need anything else, because Jehovah guides those faithful anointed ones through his spirit and his word they give all of us the spiritual food
Yay...a fine example of circular logic. The FDS is backed by God and the bible, and God and the bible say not to research the validity of what the FDS says, so therefore what the FDS says is valid.
if some says that they are trying to research what the fds has, then they are saying the want to go beyond what the fds has to teach. Well the Bible only speaks of one slave, A faithful slave. Not a whole bunch of them.
But it is so amazingly refreshing to prove someone to be a liar, isn't it? I mean, that is what they have taught us that Jehovah wants us to do with Satan. So now we want to turn the tables and prove the FDS a liar, and they can't handle it. It's not going beyond so much as it is exposing the FDS to the benefit of its duped followers.
It’s not only what they dispense, it’s the time. They do it in a timely manner, so brothers and sisters doing research on their own may stumble on something they think needs to be revealed right now, or maybe we have heard someone say, “You know, I knew that was going to come out someday,” well, now is the time, it wasn’t the time 10 years ago, and we see that over and over again. If we look at the history even in the last century how things were revealed slowly, even the book of Ezekiel about the spiritual temple, all that revealing throughout the 60s and 70s, it was all done in a timely manner, and in a way that we could benefit.
Oh boy...where to begin? This one is a gem of selective memory. All I have to say is "new light." There are plenty of examples on this board and other sites that expose the WTS and its highly fallible and inept nature of revealing what we need to know at the proper time.
If a professor in college revealed things to his students with the accuracy and "timeliness" of the WTS, that professor would be fired and the students would want refunds for that class.
It just doesn’t get any clearer than that! It like Jehovah knew this situation was going to come up, and he saw fit to have it written for us, so that we would know, so that we would not be doing research on our own, causing questions, rather than what is dispensed by him.
What about the Bereans? Is that scripture concerning them not written for the totally opposite viewpoint? What a crock of stupidity, sister! Oops, I guess I'm causing a few questions with this thought...I better stifle that!
the brothers have always been honest, and have always made corrections when necessary.
Um...the first example that comes to mind to refute this false statement is their involvement with the UN to be an NGO. Is hiding the fact and not issuing an apology an example of honesty and making corrections when necessary?
And we should avoid fights over the law. I know that because I’m a referee with attorneys, and boy they are the most arrogant and difficult foolish p people I have ever met. But, they are not all like that. Some of them are kind of nice, but I keep them in line, and I threaten them now and then and it kind of helps them to stay on their arguments.
What does this have to do with anything? But, also, it sounds like she is making an analogy of the witnesses as a whole. She is playing the part of the FDS, threatening them. The attorneys represent the witnesses.
It kind of reminds me of how the Pharisees were, when Jehovah gave a simple law about washing your hands, and they would take it so much farther, like how far up the elbows you had to wash, and they could debate and debate and debate, and when we think about some of these questionings that even we could come up with, rather than being up building, they could actually defeat that purpose. They could end up bringing us down, and they could really disturb some who may not get the full understanding of what is being said.
Ah, so he is saying the ones questioning are like Pharisees. How ironic that he has it all wrong. The ones stifling the questioning are the Pharisaic ones. The authors of the Watchtower and Awake are like the Pharisees, adding all their minutia of rules and regulations to the bible. All justified of course, because they have God's backing and his holy spirit and the bible...especially that little scripture where God is a God of order. They like to use that one to justify all the rules of the organization. Theocratic order, you know.
It made me think about somebody who has taken up Greek and so on has way too much time on their hands, so if we think about the things we can learn out of the Insight book and the volumes and if you want to go back father, you can go back to the Aid book, and to all the IS book, and things like that. Certainly there is a wealth of information. Very few of us run out of spiritual information, and very few of us run out of spiritual reading material and that’s where the true benefit really is.
Wow...what a kick in the teeth to any form of higher learning. So they are basically saying that learning Greek is worthless. One has too much time on their hands if they took the time to learn Greek. What ignorance!
Also, I'm not sure the Society would like its members digging back deep into the older publications like the Aid book or anything earlier. That would open a can of worms. This brother might be convertly pointing out to everyone that sure, the society doesn't want us looking outside the religion to prove it is wrong, so look into its own publications. There is more than enough written which will prove the Society to be false prophets.
I was thinking that we can appreciate that the fds keeps us focused, basically on preaching the Kingdom and what we need to keep our faith built to keep FOCUSED, FOCUSED, FOCUSED. And these things, perhaps they started off with good intent, hey let’s get together and do some Bible research, but then they have gone off on tangents. And you can see how they have gotten off course and not focused. The fds keeps us focused.
BRAINWASHED BRAINWASHED BRAINWASHED
So, when will they start having the Two Minutes Hate added to the 5 weekly meetings?
Another thing that is interesting when these groups get together, they spend the time to learn Greek so that they can test and so whether or not the society has done something right. Their motivation is wrong. They are not moving ahead, they are stumbled somehow. They think they can do it better. So those people that think they can do it better; those are the people you should stay away from.
Translation: "Yes, those with enough ambition to crawl out of the slop, muck, and mire...these are the ones you should avoid. You need to stay down here in the filth with the rest of us, ignorantly selling magazines for the motherlike organization. "
Please [insert Diety or Higher Power or Flying Spaghetti Monster here], help my wife see this cult for what it is and leave it!
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erandir
I'd like to hear more comments on this transcript, if anyone is game.
I'm particularly enthralled by these KM QB topics. Things like these give me hope that my wife and some of our friends will see the light and leave the cult.
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Awakened07
The thing is - when you're an active JW, you're very proud of the fact that - in contrast to other religions or denominations - there is 'unity' all over the world; they all are taught the same thing and agree with everything. At least on the surface. They are proud of this. And - that if they were allowed to promote their own views and ideas, it would create division and arguments and possibly fights. This did happen in the first Christian congregations, but the 'transgressors' were thrown out then too. All this is buzzing around up there in the JW mind as they listen to and participate in these "discussions", and gives it a ring of truth to them.
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startingover
It continues to amaze me how I could have existed in a mind-controlled state for so long and not realize it. It only takes stepping back a ways to see it, and this transcript makes it all so obvious.
Thanks for the work in putting this together.