I would argue that we can have both (faith/relationship with Jesus AND insight/chronology) although I'm sure that chronology wont save us and neither will brilliant understanding.
Basically it is faith/obeying our conscience that save us and spares us from the sin bin during the Kingdom.
Romans 4:13 For it was not through law that Abraham or his seed had the promise that he should be heir of a world, but it was through the righteousness by faith.
Romans 3 and 4 hold a lot of scriptures that show that 1. obeying your conscience will save you and 2. that faith and love in/for Jesus, his ransom and his Father help.
So this faith is the basic ticket, the basic "entrance fee" for the Kingdom.
Or it is like working for the market leader - a divine company if you like. You can be employed as a custodian or legman/runner or referee or floorwalker or manager or director or as CEO. All work for the same successful company all join in the positive development, all have a save job. But the level of your employment will be dependent upon your qualification and training and the experience you already gathered.
Likewise it is with faith and personality and insight/knowledge/chronlogy. It will be useful if you have come to known God's requirements, if you have studied the scriptures deeply for years, if you have already developed a christian personality etc. when the Kingdom comes.
But again, besides faith, nothing of these is necessary...
Phil
JWs Chronology VS. Peace With God
by writetoknow 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Philippus79
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writetoknow
The thing God is creating is "new" a new "creation" those that are in union with Christ Jesus are his body. God place those members in the body of Christ they cannot be more or less qualified do to their own fleshly efforts.
God is the qualifier through His Holy Spirit those members cannot justify themselves no more then they can place themselves into the body of Christ by biblical wisdom. This should humble all members of the body of Christ seeing therefore the greart power of our God. Moreover, how vitality precious each member is.
Upon understanding of this basic teaching growth will occur no longer will a member be viewed a natural talent or be idolized by other members it is a gift underserved not to the person but for the growth of the body nothing added or taken away - in love. If God enlighten one is certain areas glory goes to God nothing more.
The child of God knows and has been convicted nothing good dwells in and of themselves aside from God Spirit, that is, upon recieving the incorruptable gift of God His Holy Spirit and Sonship a war begains - spirit against the flesh - corruptable aganist incorruptable. Nothing of this world or works of the old person can become a "new creation".
God does not put new wine into old wine skins - this battle of flesh and spirt each member of the body experience is indeed the testing of their faith and the very thing causing the growth in love to obtain the fullness of Christ. Through their unrighteous God righteousness is brought forth. God did not pick natural talented men to be the conerstone of the New Jersalem He did just the opposite. God choses hearts that humbly recognize the unspeakable gift of grace.
For a group of men or a person to set themselves up as kings over the body of Christ because of a gift it is a serious matter. If it be chronology or natural talent it diverting and deprives one of the underserved kindness of our Lord and Savior.
It steals the gifts given to the body and uses them for flesh gains. Moreover, it gives a secondary and inferior position to Christ Jesus who is the fulfillment of all thing He alone being the living word of God the first and last the begaining and the end.
And that is why all of the apostle could say without compunction they were "slaves of the Lord Jesus Christ through the underserved kindness of God"
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JCanon
Bible Chronologist seems to imply that all depends upon their personal intellect or ability to figure out bible dates for salvation. Furthermore, they aren’t often concern with helping people understand the rest of the bible, that is, finding peace with God.
Write to know,
Yes, this is the reason why I do not bother with it.
Now which would most likely have this sentiment? A "wise virgin" who brings along extra oil, or the foolish virgin who doesn't bother worrying about the extra oil?
Chronology is not to replace other doctrinal issues, but to ignore something in the Bible as irrelevant is certainly a fatal error. Why not try and harmonize all this together. The signs were given in the Bible right beside the chronology. They were meant to be understood together. Some people think they can get by with just whatever they decide is pertinent in the Bible and not "bother with" the rest. Those who are wise don't take that chance, but include everything. Those including everything there is are the ones who would be bringing along the extra oil. Those who think they don't need everything, only a few things are the ones who don't bother with the extra oil but think what's in their lamps will get them to their goal. But what happens? It doesn't! Those with the extra oil are the ones who arrive on time and get admitted to the wedding feast. Those who didn't "bother" with the "extra" stuff in the Bible, like chronology, lose out.
JCanon
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tula
something is wrong with this post. the words go beyond my screen.
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Doug Mason
Tula,
The words go beyond the screen for me too, whether I am in Firefox or IE mode.
I tried converting it to a PDF file but the text was too small.
So I copied the text from the PDF file into Word, and then made all of the characters 11 pt high.
Then it needed reformatting. What a pain!
I wrote about this subject (my Post # 306) at JCanon's Thread at
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/141990/1.ashx
Doug -
Doug Mason
The Parable of the "Wise and Foolish Virgins" has ONE message, and we TOLD what it is: "be ready at all times, for the Groom will come at a time when he is not expected". End of story, there is nothing else to be gleaned from the parable. In this instance, the groom arrives at midnight, long after the end of the Jewish day.
It is ironic that the Parable says "be prepared at all times for he will come when he is not expected" yet people still set dates for the Coming!
As with all parables, the elements within the story are only there to get to the "punchline". The elements within the parable (oil, lamps, etc.) are not there as symbols. That happens in allegories, not in parables.
The following come from the WTS's "Insight" book on "Illustrations":
"A 'parable' is a comparison or similitude, a short, usually fictitious, narrative from which a moral or spiritual truth is drawn. ... The pa·ra·bo·le´ served as a means of teaching or communicating an idea, a method of explaining a thing by ‘placing it beside’ another similar thing. ...
"Another related term is 'allegory' (Gr., al·le·go·ri´a), which is a prolonged metaphor in which a series of actions are symbolic of other actions, while the characters often are types or personifications. ...
"A second obstacle to understanding (a parable) is the drawing of too fine an application of the illustration, trying to make every detail of the narrative of the literal events fit symbolically by arbitrary application or interpretation."
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JCanon
Dear Doug,
The Parable of the "Wise and Foolish Virgins" has ONE message, and we TOLD what it is: "be ready at all times, for the Groom will come at a time when he is not expected". End of story, there is nothing else to be gleaned from the parable. In this instance, the groom arrives at midnight, long after the end of the Jewish day.
I appreciate your own personal interpretation here, but others believe many of these parables are actually prophetic, particularly JWs. For instance, in the parable of the vineyward workers, they apply that to themselves. Not correctly, because they claim they are the last-hour workers and the first-hour workers that grumble against them are Christendom, loosely appreciating that Christendom had been in the field much longer than they had and they are relatively new. Problem is, ALL the workers including the 1st-hour workers get the penny, and if that represents the heavenly calling, then who are all these other workers who get the penny? And further, if Christendom is considered excluded from the kingdom, why is it that they get the penny as well?
I'm not asking YOU these questions directly, because you likely don't believe this parable is prophetic in any way. But I'm just showing you that in the JW context, they do believe these parables are prophetic and related to the end-times.
So to each his own. Olof Jonsson discusses a lot of chronology but he also has his own interpretation. For instance, the "7 times" prophecy where JWs use the "day for a year" theory, he much like you, have simply decided for himself that he doesn't want to make that application. He doesn't have to, but others certainly do, and "a day for a year" is certainly in the Bible.
So whether the parable about the "ten virgins" is prophet or not is up to God: "Interpretation belongs to God."
We just have two different views on it. Thanks for sharing yours.
JCanon
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writetoknow
JC, just a few more comments regarding your post. There are chronolgist that us the bible as JW"s do, but once they miss the main point of the bible "Christ Jesus" is the fulfillment of all prophecy and scriptures they bend the bible to fit their numbers.
How could a person read the bible and not know the main basic point if they weren't bogged down in chronology and in hanging their eternal life on it? Just as you have openly acknowledge in many post your salvation comes through chronology.
Is chronology in the bible anyone reading understands the history of Christianity knows that it is in the bible as is the old law. The argument of the new testiment was not being under law or bring it back if a person did they lose the underserved kindness of Christ Jesus and come under slavery. Does the old testiment help us to better understand Christ Jesus that he alone is the reality of all the things written in the past? I believe it does.
But if one period is brought back to uphold as law over the new law of love it requires going back to all of it and that is the problem with chronologist they have done exactly that. Not just JW's but other groups as well.
The sealing of every last life according to your bible is done by God. If you live in a country and were in a dungon and never talked to another Christain or had a bible - God would speak to you by Holy Spirit chronology would not speak to you, And if the end of the world came you would be sealed. So no! My life or no Christain life depends on chronology. They already have life in Christ Jesus the fact chronologist do not really believe that is very serious matter.
The bible is the Word of God (Jesus Christ) speaking by Holy Spirt to Christ apostles all those belonging to Christ Jesus are of his body have the same Holy Spirit and they lack nothing regarding where God is and what He wants them to do and when. And that is why my dear friend everyone in the org of JW's waits on the GB because they believe God speak directly to them by his Holy Spirit.
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writetoknow
Romans 8:31-39 It is God who justifies
What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not withhold his own Son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? Who will bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written,
"For your sake we are being killed all day long;
we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered."
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.