What Were the "Geneologies" Of Which Paul Was Warning In 1 Tim. 1:17?

by Justitia Themis 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JCanon

  Perhaps by continuing to harp on the "vain geneologies" theme, the WTS is trying to keep JWs away from the modern day geneological societies and geneological libraries that are found almost everywhere and which are often sponsored by the LDS Church or other religious entities.

  Again, I think we are overreaching here. These "geneologies" are better referenced to historical kings lists, the geneology of kings that had been revised by this time and that contradicted the Bible's timeline in a big way. The "false stories" that violated what was holy is a relevant reference to any pseudo-historical Jewish "fables" like the Book of Esther, which contradicts the Bible. Otherwise, what "false stories" or "fables" could there be that would be ever compared to the Bible? How could a "fable" violate what is holy? It could if it were treated as true history, which some, like the Book of Esther, indeed was.

  Now some had mentioned these "geneologies" would be the Jewish focus on their own ancestry. But in what way would that impact upon the congregation to any great degree. Even Jesus provided his own geneology in the Bible. These records were just records; there was no doctrinal philosophies connected to that type of geneological reference.

  A second idea which is interesting presented here is that it had something to do with Gnosticism, which is an interesting reference, but apparently with its problems.

  However, if the geneologies are in reference to historical geneologies of kings, which would affect the timeline and there were contradictions with the Bible, then there would be a problem. And in fact, since the Babylonians did revise their chronology, as in the case of the Neo-Babylonian Period where there is no room for any 70-year period of desolation of the land to pay back its sabbaths as the Bible says when you use the revised chronology, you can see this was a real problem, and we can see why there is a reference this brought up questions for "research", that is research into ancient conflicting historical records over these geneologies, rather than anything that was directly related to faith or the Christian lifestyle. Historical geneologies of kingships related to Jewish history seems a more pertinent reference, especially in the context of "fables" and "false stories" which had already been noted even by the WTS to be a reference to the Jewish apocryphal works that had appeared at this time, only the Book of Esther needs to be included as one of those "false stories" and "fables."

  JCanon
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  JCanon

  "List of aeons" could easily apply to "list of ages", referring to the historical kings lists from the time of ancient Egypt forward, and thus historical lists. Lists that did not agree with the Bible's strict timeline, sometimes glaringly so.

  Why couldn't this be a reference to historical lists?

  JCanon
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  Leolaia

  A number of things can be said about this. One point in favor of the gnostic interpretation are the numerous parallels in the Pastorals between the beliefs and practices criticised (and indirectly echoed) by the author and those in the early second-century gnostic movement, including sexual acesticism (1 Timothy 4:3; compare 2:15, 5:13-16), realized eschatology (2 Timothy 2:18), the inherent evil of created matter and the Law (1 Timothy 1:8, 4:1-4), the primacy of Eve (1 Timothy 2:13), the gnostic rejection of OT scripture (2 Timothy 2:16), and an obsession about gnosis (1 Timothy 6:20, 2 Timothy 3:6-7). And of course, the second-century heresiologists read the Pastorals in the same light and interpreted the "genealogies" as referring to Valentinian-style hierarchies of aeons and archons (Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses, 1.praef.1, 1.11.1; Tertullian, De Praescriptione Haereticorum, 33). However they doubtless were guided by their apologetic motives to read the text in such a fashion. It is also not unlikely that the author addressed more than one "heresy". Ignatius in the early second century addressed both docetism and Torah observance in separate epistles (cf. Smyrnaeans for the former and Philadelphians, Magnesians for the latter). I should also point out that gnosticism (which was never a unified entity) has very shadowy roots, the origins of which are not very well understood. The proto-gnostic currents of the late first century AD doubtless embraced many practices and ideas that were later elaborated in further detail in the second century. As early as Paul, we find some concepts that would later be described as "gnostic" (I would not go so far as to call Paul "gnostic" however). Valentinius (who developed his system c. AD 120-130) was preceded by Basilides, Satorninus, Cerinthus, and other earlier philosophers and Valentinian cosmogony may derive from a combination of the system of Basilides and those of Egyptian Jewish Hermetica (cf. the genealogiai of the Greek deities and demigods). The Sethian systems of the mid-second century (cf. Gospel of Judas, Apocryphon of John, Revelation of Adam, etc.) likely have their own precursors. Since the opinion of the date of the Pastorals varies by a wide margin, the epistles would have been contemporary with first-century proto-gnosticism or even full-blown Valentinian gnosticism, depending on how the criteria of date and authorship are assessed.

  The alternative interpretation of 1 Timothy 1:4 however has weighty support. (1) The term nomodidaskaloi in v. 7 clearly suggests that the individuals of v. 4 were Torah-observant and not antinomian (cf. especially the reference to the Law in v. 8-10). (2) The word genealogias occurs again in Titus 3:9 where it is paired with makhus nomikas, a likely reference to disputes over halakha or Torah observance at least. (3) Muthois occurs again in Titus 1:14 where it explicitly refers to Ioudaikois muthois "Jewish myths". (4) Similar language is used in Ignatius who describes antiquated myths (mutheumasin tois palaiois) as kata Iousaismon "in accordance with Judaism" (Magnesians 8:1). (5) The allusion to Jannes and Jambres in 2 Timothy 3:8 was derived from legendary haggadah, which would be an ironic touch. So I think a Torah-observant form of Jewish-Christianity is probably in view here, one which was steeped in haggadah about the Torah. I suspect that the muthoi kai genealogiai in v. 4 pertains to Torah-centered legendary storytelling along the lines of Jubilees and Pseudo-Philo (cf. also the Genesis Apocryphon, the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, the Book of Giants, and other writings). Noteworthy especially is the way the Greek historian Polybius characterized genealogiai; he characterized this genre of storytelling (ho genealogikos tropos) as mere entertainment (i.e. for those who just like listening) whereas history is for statesmen and those with antiquarian interests (Historia 9.1.4). This attitude of genealogiai as mere entertainment is paralleled by the attitude in the Pastorals which treats them as "vain". Later he contrasted genealogy with historiography, lumping genealogies with pure myth (tas genealogias kai muthous), while treating the history of colonialization as midway between myth and history, and the genre dealing with policy as real history (9.2.1). Hippias of Elis (Plato, Hippias Major, 285d) described the Spartans as fans of "genealogies" of heroes and other forms of antiquarian interest (arkhaiologia). The most interesting parallel is found in Philo of Alexandria (Vita Mosis 2.8) who described the history of the patriarchs in the Torah as "the genealogical part" (to genealogikon meros) of the Torah. The toledoth notices ("These are the generations of...) throughout the Priestly portions of Genesis may have contributed to this appraisal too. As a rewriting of the historical/genealogial portions of the Torah, Jubilees stands as a good example of the kind of haggadah the author of the Pastorals may have had in mind. The overwhelming interest of the author of Jubilees in chronographical and calendar issues, as well as halakha on the commandments of the Torah and its festivals, well illustrates the kind of subjects that the Pauline churches would have regarded as lacking in substance.

  The issue of genealogy however is interesting tho if we consider the case of 1 Enoch and the Book of Giants which went into considerable detail about the names of the fallen angels and the giants (= contemporary evil spirits). I have often thought of whether there was a historical relationship between the "genealogies" of aeons and archons in various gnostic cosmogonies and older Enochic proto-demonology, i.e. whether interest in the latter contributed in some small way to gnostic mythologies. The names of the aeons in Sethian mythologies in particular often have Aramaic origins and some at least derive from Jewish angelology/demonology (such as Oroiael, Phariel, Samael, etc.). The Revelation of Adam is particularly interesting in how it combines this cosmogonic interest with the genealogies of Genesis 5-10, linking together the eternal aeons and rulers with the posterity of Noah, via Kham, Iapheth and Sem, and through the 13 kingdoms through their own progeny. And the Sethian perspective is very much invested in the role of the great Seth, the Revealer, Eve and her son Cain via the ruler (Sakla), all notions that seem to be developments from Jewish midrash on Genesis 1-4 (cf. what Josephus wrote on Seth, for instance, or the idea in the midrash that Eve copulated with the serpent and gave birth to Cain). So I suspect that at some point in the past, gnostic mythology and Jewish-Christian haggadah overlapped considerably. It may be futile to distinguish the two main alternatives from each other. The "Jewish myths" that the Pastorals allude to may well have been those that underlie later gnostic mythologies.
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  tula

  *Mr. Smith *decided to start at beginning to read Bible. It was his first endeavor at such an undertaking.

  He was into the "begats" and sent his son out to buy more tape. When the son returned, his father added more sheets of paper to the already plastered wall of charts depicting lineage who "begat" whom and whom belonged to whom. The father spent a good week on it.

  About a week later, *Mr. Smith* was in a very foul mood. His son relayed that, after having read on into the next chapters, the father realized that all his work was for nothing. "All those damn begats had been destroyed in the flood."

  Now, the only people left had descended from Noah.

  So, I think that's what it means about the vanities and waste of time of geneologies.
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  JCanon

  Just another note for context here about "genealogies" and whether we can stretch it to something with a gnostic or religious context is the reference that concern over these genealogies were more related to factual and/or literary genealogies, such as kings lists:

  " nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith."

  Notice, therefore, that the context is not concerning a necessarily doctrinal "genealogy", which certaintly concepts of false gods or demonic angels would fall under. Instead, these were questions that could be resolved by "research." Research is something you do in relation to books. These Christians would not be questioning genealogies or angles, certainly. That was not something they were legitimately concerned over. And apparently it wasn't over doctrinal "interpretation" of anything since "research" was where these questions would be answered.

  On the other hand, research is precisely what would result if you had a concerns over the chronology of kings lists and the genealogies of the kings over time. If there is a discrepancy, then you'd research it to try to resolve it. Further, the fact that Timothy is saying it wasn't really directly related to the practice of faith, but apparently to details of fact, it would tend to argue against a gnostism reference.

  But especially in the context of "false stories" being connected with genealogies and these "false stories" related to Jewish fables do we again see a historical connection, since some of these fables are presented at least as pseudo-history. I refer to the original LXX version of the Book of Esther, but it could also be other general materials that were in circulation at the time, favorite old wives tales that violated in some way the Bible. Case in point, I stumbled upon a Jewish folkloric version of "Neamias" that I read at a small Jewish library at the Holocaust Museum in West Los Angeles. I was shocked at the obvious inference that Nehemiah, a eunuch, was in love with Artaxerxes. No overt sexuality was implied, of course, since Nehemiah would have been a castrated eunuch, but when he asks Artaxerxes to return home, he is described as sitting on the kings lap and "batting his eyes at the king" while making the request. Thus even in old Jewish times the exaggeraged gay character got as big laughs as we find today performed by modern comedians who play the over-effeminate and "flaming" gay characters. Even so, some Christians might find that a bit offensive since it is not entirely clear that that is actually what happened, so it does "violate what is holy."

  So there is no problem having Jewish fables and false stories along with genealogies in the context of factual historical reference that apparently some Christians were finding contradiction with, but were encouraged to ignore, perhaps because there was no apparent resolution to the issue, and indeed, would cause questions about "research" of which records were accurate and which were not, rather than any issues of applied practice of their faith. And certainly the Christians could be encouraged to dismiss some of these historical genealogies because many of them were in conflict with each other besides sometimes contradicting the Bible.

  On the other hand, a true Christian would have been aware that "gnosticism" was just another extension of the Mysteries and paganism and that wouldn't have been a normal Christian concern. However, at one point, chronology and the harmony of acient history might be of concern. When this application is made, then the warning then rings true. That is, don't be worried about the kings lists and the historical genealogies that might contradict with the Bible, or the false stories that contradict the Bible. Those things were more a question of resolve by research than by any religious concept affecting the practice or application of one's faith.

  JC
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  Justitia Themis

  So I suspect that at some point in the past, gnostic mythology and Jewish-Christian haggadah overlapped considerably. It may be futile to distinguish the two main alternatives from each other. The "Jewish myths" that the Pastorals allude to may well have been those that underlie later gnostic mythologies.

  Thank you for this comment Leolaia. I love everyone's detailed discussion, but half-way through reading the thread I thought...why can't it be both?

  Justitia
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  JCanon

  So I suspect that at some point in the past, gnostic mythology and Jewish-Christian haggadah overlapped considerably. It may be futile to distinguish the two main alternatives from each other. The "Jewish myths" that the Pastorals allude to may well have been those that underlie later gnostic mythologies.

  Thank you for this comment Leolaia. I love everyone's detailed discussion, but half-way through reading the thread I thought...why can't it be both?

  Justitia

  Interesting concept, but again, we have to deal with the context at hand. That is, this is something Christians would be concerned with or that would come up in the process of their Christian lives. Gnosticism and concern over the genealogies of pagan gods would never be of their concern.

  Further, it is not likely private genealogies either, but some type of public genealogy that had a common interest. That would certainly be historical genealogies affecting the Biblical timeline.

  Again, historical genealogies and pseudo-historical fables like Judith and Esther were of real concern to Christians since it did "violate what is holy" in that it altered the Bible's own historical reference to these people and events. Still, just as now, it is clear some of these contradictions were not easily answered and were more related to research questions to resolve the contradictions. Christians are not going to be concerned with anything pagan, and certainly not concerned with details of which false god begat the other. There is no context for paganism reference here.

  But in the common Jewish experience there were historical fables to deal with and some genealogical histories that were in place that did contradict Bible chronology. If there was little to resolve these contradictions, Timothy was simply encouraging they be ignored and dismissed. Ancient history is often expressed in the detail of kings lists, which are genealogies.

  JCanon
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  Sarah Smiles

  I am a fan of commentaires and enjoy reading many. Also I am happy that everyone posted about there views on 1Timothy because I thought it only had something to do with keeping a records of which hebrew tribes someone came from, but that would not be foolish and Paul himself said he was from the tribe of Benjemin.

  You all make very good points! But I wish I had energy to study it all in detail, so I have to make a comment just so I can find it easier!

  I get exhuasted just posting the last KM on the bibical point of view, but wow this one hits it right on! I think you guys should make your own magazines.
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  Justitia Themis

  Interesting concept, but again, we have to deal with the context at hand. That is, this is something Christians would be concerned with or that would come up in the process of their Christian lives. Gnosticism and concern over the genealogies of pagan gods would never be of their concern.

  But, the Christians in Ephesus were a combination of Jews AND Pagans. Ephesus was a large city with a large commercial base because of its location on trading routes. We know there had to be some upper-class Christians ( who were probably Gentile), because of the account of a young man who fell out of a third story window while Paul was preaching in this home.

  It was the most active city in the whole empire for Roman cult worship, and was granted the privilege of having TWO temples to Augustus. They also worshipped Artemis, as we have the account of the the riots that involved Paul because of the statue-making silversmiths.

  In a letter to the closely related city of Colossae, Paul warned them about their "angel worship." So the Gentile Christians easily could have become interested in Gnosticism because of their religious background, and they could have been influencing Jewish Christians, who might find it attractive because of their history of keeping geneologies.

  Additionally, at this time in history, Gnosticism was not clearly articulated; the Ephesians and their pluralistic backgrounds would make a fertile breeding ground for "new" ideas.

  Regards,

  Justitia
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  still_in74

  Interesting concept, but again, we have to deal with the context at hand. That is, this is something Christians would be concerned with or that would come up in the process of their Christian lives. Gnosticism and concern over the genealogies of pagan gods would never be of their concern.
  

  But, the Christians in Ephesus were a combination of Jews AND Pagans

  I was just ready to reply when I saw you beat me to it!

  I was going to say the same thing. Considering the times that they were living in they would have not "coined" gnosticism but rather witnessed its development among the "educated". Those gentiles associating with christians would most certainly have introduced these "teachings" to other christians in conversation and debate.

  nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith."

  
  What false stories would there be associated with geneologies that would be so hazardous for Christians to research if he was referring to literal geneologies of Kings? What concern would Paul have had? Yet if christians were contemplating the teachings of gnostics then certainly these "false stories" would not dispense "anything of God in connection with faith"

  I have to say, I could NEVER enjoy such a deep topic and be so well educated by the likes of Leolaia, JC & JT anywhere else other than here. I have spent all afternoon researching and sucking this in. I have never read scriptures with such open eyes before JWD. I love this!!! Please continue to post great topics for research like this.
  As for Leolaia,

  I have often thought of whether there was a historical relationship between the "genealogies" of aeons and archons in various gnostic cosmogonies and older Enochic proto-demonology

  I have to say I actually laughed out loud when I read that!! I can only imagine depths of your knowledge if these are things you "often think about" !!