I phoned London Bethel re Michael Porter / sex offender

ThomasCovenant

Hi

I rang London Bethel and asked to speak to someone about the recent case in the British press about a JW child sex offender. The lady at reception asked if I was a Witness. I replied that I can't see what that has got to do with it I just would like to ask some questions. I pushed the point with her as to what difference it would make as to whether I was or not and she eventually in a fluster just put me on to piped music before a gentleman at the Media Dept answered.

I explained to him that I was not a JW but my parents were.

The gentleman told me that Porter was removed from being an elder as soon as it 'came to light'.

Porter is not an elder or a ministerial servant and will not be in the future in line with the 1991 WT information. ( I don't know what article)

I asked him how come the holy spirit appointed Porter as an elder after he had committed the crimes. Surely the holy spirit must have known he was an abuser and yet still appointed him.

The gentleman said that the qualifications in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 2 are inspired by holy spirit and therefore if it appears that a man fulfills those qualifications then it can be said that he is appointed by holy spirit.

I said that seems a bit of a cop out as following that arguement if any one does anything that is following something said in the Bible they could be viewed as appointed by holy spirit. Also I said I don't think that's how my parents view it. I am sure they view it as it's said i.e. an elder is appointed by holy spirit.

He then said categorically "we do not believe any divine inspiration is involved" in the appointment of elders.

That last bit is news to me.

Thanks

Thomas Covenant

DannyHaszard

He then said categorically "we do not believe any divine inspiration is involved" in the appointment of elders.

wozadummy

Nice post Thomas

As far as I'm concerned it's always been the understanding of the JW's that Elders were appointed by holy spirit ,and they don't like it being brought up to them and I'd bet you'd get alot of different answers .

I questioned the local elders about one of them who was made to step down after it was discovered he had commited adultery .The thing is though he had done it 14 years previous to his owning up ,and he did it before he was appointed an elder ,which was not long after his adultery.

They invariably look down at the floor searching for an answer.

jwfacts

Good work and great reasoning. JWs have no problem lieing when it suits them. The Watchtower makes it quite clear that the elders are promoted by the direct intervention of Holy Spirit in articles that call for obedience, but change their tune when scrutinised.

Watchtower 2002 March 15 p. 14 Christ Leads His Congregation - “Our Leader uses this Governing Body to appoint qualified men—whether spirit-anointed or not—as elders in the local congregations. In this regard, the holy spirit, which Jehovah has given Jesus authority to employ, plays a pivotal role. (Acts 2:32, 33) First of all, these overseers must meet the requirements set out in God’s Word, which was inspired by holy spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 2 Peter 1:20, 21) The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit . Additionally, the individuals appointed give evidence of producing the fruitage of that spirit. …How reassuring to know that Jesus Christ provides leadership to his disciples today through the Governing Body, the holy spirit, and the angels !”

See http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/holyspirit.htm for similar quotes.

AK - Jeff

Back when I was 'doubting' and before I got it figured out, I was being given a Mini-Loyalty Test by this one elder often when I would question the actions of the local elders. [I did not know what he was doing at the time of course.]

He would ask me 'Jeff, do you believe that the elders are appointed by Holy Spirit?' I would answer the same way each time 'Kevin, to the extent that they are really following the Bible's advice and living like the Holy Spirit would direct,,,, to that extent they are appointed by Holy Spirit.'

He always looked disappointed. I know now that I was treading a fine line between loyal and not - but I didn't know it then. I thought at the time that I should be loyal to God - little did I know.

Nice post - perhaps you could get the next one on tape? That would be fun.

Jeff

quietlyleaving

Hmm

I know a young bethelite who got disfellowshppd for lying about his past. He got reinstated a year later.

Michael Porter lied about his past to get into bethel - why wasn't he disfellowshpped. Unless of course Michael Porter's activities aren't considered pornea whereas the other young man's were. But still there is the lying aspect - isn't that worthy of a disfellshpping?

I think I'll give bethel a ring and ask them.

Hoping4Change

He then said categorically "we do not believe any divine inspiration is involved" in the appointment of elders.

This comment seems to be in line with what JR Brown told someone on the phone a while ago. The recording used to be available from a link on this message board but I dont remember who did the recording. I think it was around the time of the Jesus Cano incident. Of course what is in the literature and what gets said from the platform sounds completely different.

ThomasCovenant

Hi

Thanks for the links jwfacts.

I am pretty sure that nearly all JW's would think divine inspiration was involved in the appointment of elders. Most can reconcile that an elder can fall short after being made up but how do you explain an elder being made up when he is or was recently a sex offender.

Quietlyleaving. Go ahead give them a ring. I think if more rang up with questions they would soon get fed up. Now that I've broken the ice in ringing I will do so again. As long as you are civil to the person I can't see what the problem is. As regards recording the conversation I did my best to write it down as we were talking. Not easy but he definitely said the bit highlighted.

Thomas Covenant

mouthy

But they give an answer like this when I inquired,

"Well David, Soloman were hand picked by the spirit. & they fell."So can man today....just like Judas

DannyHaszard

All my 33 years of JW life it was doctrine that elders and MS even pioneers are appointed by the holy spirit.

I was disfellowshipped by the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Rockland Massachusetts Jan 5 1992 on a charge of CAPITAL offense.This Capital offense was so bad that they said that I would be stoned to death if we were in ancient israel.

What did I do that was so wicked? I rightfully accused (in private) an elder Gxxxxx Mxxxxxx of being a 'mealy mouth liar' they said that this was a capital offense because the elders are "Christ stars appointed by the holy spirit" and I had blasphemed the holy spirit.-Danny Haszard

I phoned London Bethel re Michael Porter / sex offender

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