The concept of "free will" fascinates me...

by changeling 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • changeling
    changeling

    JW's speak of humans having free will. They also speak of the "rebelion" in Eden. Are these concepts compatible?

    If Adam and Eve did inded have free will, they were free to worship God or not. They were free to eat the forbidden fruit or not. So why was eating the fruit an act of rebelion? Even if death as a consequence of eating the fruit were a just outcome, how was it "rebelion"? How is a making a chioce, if you have free will, rebelious?

    Here's another thought: God is supposed to be the personification of love. He is supposed to be our Father. As parents we are admonished to follow his example in how we treat our children. With this in mind think of the scenario in Eden. Picture yourself as the parent, (father/god) and you have two children (Adam and Eve). You place your children in a room full of toys. As you walk out of the room you tell them they are allowed to play with all the toys except the shinny red ball in the corner. You tell them that if they do play with the red ball, you will kill them. Does this sound reasonable to you? Would a loving parent do such a thing?

    Take it further: As a parent, have you figured out yet that if you tell a child not to touch something and leave it within his reach, you can be assured he will indeed touch it? And, if that item is dangerous and could harm your child, are you not responsible for his injury or death if he gets a hold of it?

    Were Adam and Eve set up? Did God know what the outcome would be? We've been taught he's the creator of us all and therfore knows human nature. How come we humans know the nature of our children but our Heavenly Father/Creator does not?

    Some may argue that Adam and Eve were not children. Ok, they had adult bodies. So what? They were still in every sense, innocent, naive and inexperienced. They were no more capable of making life and death desicions then a small child. And for their inexperience they paid with not only their lives but the lives of their offspring. Again, is this the reflection of a loving parent?

    So, is there anybody out there who can convince me that the story of Adam and Eve is not an allegory? Can you convince me that even if it is an allegory it teaches something worthwhile? Can you convince me that the god of Genesis is loving and deserves my worship?

    And speaking of worship...Do you as a parent want to be worshiped by your children? Do you want them to center their lives around you and do your will always? Would you sentence them to death or torture if they don't worship you? Would you consider a parent to be loving (or sane) if he expected his children to worship him?

    Can anybody give me a sound, logical explination why I should not only believe in God, but worship him as well?

    changeling

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Free will is a lie.

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    Why create a tree with poison fruit? A compassionate god wouldn't do this. Sounds like a game.

  • Rosalee
    Rosalee

    Adam and Eve were not only adults ... but ... perfect adults. We can't even conceive of the idea of perfection. We are thousands of years down the road from it.

    As for the shiny red ball in the corner ... a better analogy is if there is a shiny red ball in each corner ... but do not touch a certain one.

    God deserves our worship. We deserve love and respect from our children. We are humans on earth ... God is a Spirit creature in heaven.

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Excellent post Changeling, the god of the bible as I have said before is the megameanie, superbully of the universal playground. Don't play his way and you'll be fishbait. You cannot reconcile love with a god such as this. It's a load of hogwash and superstition based on controlling people's actions with fear. You cannot personify love and also personify hate. Oh I love this scripture, Judges 1:19 " And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

    Yeah, so I should worship a god who is powerful enough to create the universe but in his holy book, written by HIM, according to christians, he can't defeat iron chariots. LMAO. Absofreakinglutely insane!

  • exwitless
    exwitless

    Excellent topic, changeling. I have often pondered the idea of free will.

    It seems quite hypocritical for Jehovah to say "You may do what you want, it's your choice, no problem. Oh, just one thing...If you don't do what I want, I'll kill you at Armageddon. Just a minor detail. Also, you have to guess what it is I really want you to do. I'll give you a rediculously long book of riddles pieced together. See if you can figure it out in time..."

    Here's where I'm at with belief in the Bible or God or religion: WTF???

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    But isn't God a fable derived from human ignorance, as many types of these fables were told thousands of years ago

    if you worship god then you must also worship the stated ignorance from which he was derived from

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Does the Bible actually say we have free will anywhere? Or is it just a term used by various religions?

  • exwitless
    exwitless

    That's a good question, choosing life.

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    Changeling....I've thought about this same thing a great deal. I do believe the story of Adam and Eve is not to be taken literally.

    Here's my take on it: When God took man from out of the rest of the hominids that existed, he separated him by giving him

    neshama. This is the human soul, the gift of free will from the creator. It is different from the animal soul, the nefesh which

    allows animals choice based on instinct and inclination. The human soul--the neshama--allows the freedom to make choices.

    How do you give someone free will unless you give them CHOICE?

    In order to receive the gift of free will, humans had to begin to make choices based on something other than instinct and

    simple inclination. We did it! By this one development in our evolution, we became HUMAN. What transpired after that

    isn't THE FALL OF MAN. It's simply man evolving as HUMAN, with the ability to think about the consequences of his

    CHOICES. He developed a sense of right and wrong by receiving the gift of free will.

    And here we are today faced with making the same right/wrong choices. What we choose will determine our individual

    evolution toward God/Love as well as contribute to our planetary evolution toward Christ Consciousness.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit