Reasons for Leaving JWs/Fatal Flaw (page 2)

Eyebrow

I was told that animals and man became eat meaters only after the flood because all the vegetation had not recovered. Any one else remember that teaching?

Eyebrow,
That sounds familiar to me too. I do know that is what they taught about man but I'm not sure about animals.
But I think they taught that about animals too because that would explain why they taught us that the meat eating animals would eat straw in the new world,implying that things would go back to God's original pourpose.

Pat,
Very interesting thread.

Ranchette

patio34

Hi all,

I've been at work all day and then took my grandsons to Chuck E Cheese (you know, where a kid can be a kid?). They ought to have valium-dispensing machines next to the token machines!

Well, I'm flabbergasted at the great replies I received today on this thread. Had no idea so many would be interested. It's made such an interesting discussion for me.

I was almost afraid to ask what others thought because of, well, you know some of the fundies on this board can get into some heated discussions. Well, that's wrong, not only the fundies . . . LOL

Moxy, I always enjoy your good posts. I printed out one today on your reasoning about Daniel's point of reference being much further away from Nebuchadnezzar's. It was excellent.

Sirona, those were good reasonings about mankind personifying a god. What we observe in nature does not fit the Bible god.

AlanF, it's true that a cheetah-type animal could not suddenly after the Flood develop lightning quick speed for killing. That is precisely what evolution did but over eons of time.

JanH, that's an interesting post. The answer doesn't fit the problem of "evil," but an indifferent universe does.

Comment, your post resonates in my experience. I've always been bothered by evolution and must have read the 'Creation' book(s) 3 times each, trying to overcome it. And it worked for a while--"any answer would do!" LOL!

Hillary_Step, thanks for another interesting post. I used to wonder what marine life would eat: there's very little vegetation under the ocean. That's a funny picture of a preying mantis chomping something's head off while Johnny is playing with the lion. Forgive me: size matters, I guess! The WTS's answer to your thesis and query rings true to form: keep preaching and leave everything to us.

Hi Waiting! That was such an excellent point you made about the Awake article that because scientists don't understand everything about millions of years of evolution in a few decades, then it's wrong. Creationists don't have to explain anything. The answer is "it's a miracle." They mostly take potshots at the scientists and plagarize their results, saying look at what a miracle, even tho the biologist who produced the facts may be an evolutionist.

Your quote of "shit happens" pretty well sums it all up! About the universe, that is. LOL!

Mindchild, really good points you made. Sounds as tho mankind has "Disneyfied" everything, from Bambi, Dumbo, to Dinasour!

Eyebrow and Ranchette, I think the WTS idea was that the earth and animals became violent after Adam's sin caused a curse on the earth. But man didn't eat animals until after the Flood because the atmosphere changed and vegetation wouldn't be available all the time.

Well, to all a good night!

Pat

Introspection

Hi Pat, just one thing:

Genes don't care about suffering, because they don't are about anthing.

Maybe the question is, do we care?

patio34

Ah, Introspection. Great point. Maybe we are the first species that is capable of caring. It seems pretty split to me: you've got the warlike aggressors on one hand, and humane folks on the other. With a lot in between. Very thoughtful question. If we don't care, who will? Thanks.
Pat

Mommie Dark

Hi Pat: the question I find myself asking is, WHY do humans 'care'? Why do we have the ability to care? Why do we need to make sense out of the randomness of the universe? Why ae we so desperate to make order amongst the chaos?

I sometimes wonder if our unique human self-awareness isn't an evolutionary cul-de-sac? What purpose does it serve in the universal cycle of life eating itself?

Well I've been awake for about ten minutes and you folks have certainly given me some interesting intellectual breakfast!

I love this place...

bboyneko 2

WHY do humans 'care'? Why do we have the ability to care? Why do we need to make sense out of the randomness of the universe? Why ae we so desperate to make order amongst the chaos?
I sometimes wonder if our unique human self-awareness isn't an evolutionary cul-de-sac? What purpose does it serve in the universal cycle of life eating itself?

It can all be derived from the fact that we are predators. We have binocular vision for great depth perception and INTILLIGENCE. The most Intilligent animals are predators, which is why cats and dogs make great pets, as opposed to rabbits and guinea pigs which are dumb as doornails. Still good pets, but not as trainable as a dog or cat.

We care as an extention of maternal/paternal instinct. The nature of animals is to be selfish, this is how we survive. Kill or be killed, etc. Survival of the fittest. Very brutal. ALl this changes when an animals gives birth. Usually, they will care for their offspring, and all of a sudden they are no longer selfish. What matters most is not their survival but the survival of their offspring. THey will die to protect the offspring. Its a very strong instinct. It ensures survival of the species.

I beleive that our caring and even the emotion of love is a mix of that instinct and intellectual stimulation. Intilligent animals need mental exercise or they become bored and restless and unhappy. Self-awareness can be stemmed from the basic emotion of curiosity. It killed the cat right? Intilligent animals sometimes will go investigate something even if they fear it.

Have you ever seen a confused dog or cat? This confusion can eventually evolve into a sense of wonder, eventually the ability to ask 'why'? Once that question is able to be asked, self-awareness begins.

As for making order, we are very organized animals. I beleive this stems from symmetry. We love seeing faces and forms that are even, two arms, two legs, eyes even, etc etc. To us this is beauty. When a face has uneven eyes, one eye larger than the other, uneven teeth, it becomes 'ugly.' Symmetry is a sign of healthy genes, and hence we are attracted to it. I think we translate that attraction ot order and balance in everything we create and do.

my 2¢

waiting

Reasons for Leaving JWs/Fatal Flaw

Eyebrow

Ranchette

patio34

Introspection

patio34

Mommie Dark

bboyneko 2

proplog2

larc

waiting

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