Awake! Special Issue - Can You Trust The Bible? (page 4)

LtCmd.Lore

There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth
Honestly, when reading this verse does one really think of God dwelling ABOVE a sphere?
Which direction is "above" a sphere?

Exellent point! I never thought of that one. That would ONLY apply to a flat earth.

Leolaia

LOL, good one, VM44...you're gonna get yerself in trouble if you keep on usin' your noggin like that!

Awakened07

Something I just thought of (not yet "peer reviewed", so I could be wrong):

From the Awake! article: "But not once in its more than 1100 chapters does the Bible endorse any unscientific views or harmful practices."

As for harmful (and/or unscientific) practices, it can be said (at least by those who don't believe) that the practice of burnt offerings to God was if nothing else a waste of resources. But perhaps more importantly: By continuously slaughtering and burning their most prized, most flawless animals, they in effect were breeding ever more weak, disease prone and flawed breeds and varieties of animals. They were continuously and routinely taking out the best, least flawed of the flock and killing them, leaving the less 'perfect' varieties to breed.

-It must have been disheartening for the Israelites to see that the more flawless and 'perfect' animals they sacrificed to God in prayer, the less 'perfect' the rest of their flocks would become. This would be the case either if you believe in evolution or not. It's a principle that works either way, and a principle animal breeders use actively up to our day, only in reverse (one obviously keep the traits one wishes to strengthen and vice versa).

Awakened07

- I was "promised" scans of the other pages...

(in other words; *bump*)

VM44

But not once in its more than 1100 chapters does the Bible endorse any unscientific views or harmful practices."

Someone pointed out awhile ago that the Biblical instructions concerning disposal of human waste, while beneficial for an individual, were NOT healthy if followed by a large community of people.

Perhaps someone could find the thread where this was mentioned and provide the details.

--VM44

karvel

the rest:

alt

Leolaia

Hmmm, they don't quote the prophecy about Tyre never being rebuilt. Guess they forgot about that one.

Awakened07

First of all, thanks for the rest of the scans, karvel.

I can see how this article may be compelling to some people, especially those who are already JWs.

Page 3:

It starts off with a nice sentiment; don't believe or accept anything you hear, check sources, don't misplace your trust. It seems very open and inviting; 'take it or leave it'.

It promises that the rest of the article will present compellingevidence that the Bible is worthy of our trust.

Page 4:

Argues that the Bible is a special book because it has: Been printed and distributed in such large quantities, Was halfway "done" by the time of Confucius and Siddhartha Gautama, Has influenced arts and music, Has survived attempts to destroy it.

Yes, the Bible is a special book, there's no doubt about it, both in the way it came about (as we know it today) and in how large a distribution it has had. However, when the various ecumenical councils had decided what books should and shouldn't go into the Bible and thereafter made Christianity the state religion of the Roman empire, it was the start of a process that had to result in a large distribution of the book. Over the years, some people - even clergy - opposed the idea that common people should read the Bible, and therefore tried to destroy it, but since it was now an integral part of many people's beliefs, some were also willing to die to defend it. By our time, it has become widespread also because of the Christian 'duty' to spread the word, also in foreign territories. Today, I would guess every Christian (or ex-Christian) on the planet has at least one Bible (I personally have three). Both the large distribution and the persecution of it were part of a natural chain of events.

As for being half way 'done' by the time other influential religious characters and philosophers emerged, yes, the Bible's oldest books are old, however there are older religious texts and inscriptions than the oldest texts of the Bible; some of them seem to have inspired some of what made it into those first biblical books (although a controversial subject). So I'm not sure what the point of mentioning this is, other than trying to show that the Bible - at least in part - is older, and therefore more trustworthy (?) than the later religions and philosophies. Which in that case is undermined by the above mentioned fact that the earliest biblical texts are preceded by many other religious texts (to be honest, Leolaia and Narksissos among others know much more about this than me).

As for influencing arts and music, this is quite natural - just like other gods and beliefs have influenced people's art and music. People feel moved by what they believe, and spend a great deal of their life pondering it. No wonder they would use it as an inspiration in their music and art.

Page 5:

No need to say much here. The Bible might be 100% accurate when it comes to historical figures - it doesn't really matter. It is surely disputed by many, but my point is that even if the Bible is 100% accurate when it comes to naming places and people, it's a rather moot point. This aspect should of course also be carefully examined, but an old book being accurate about it's history wouldn't be anything special in itself. What is special, are all the supernatural occurrences the Bible is citing. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. If I wrote a book about the first world war, and all the historic details were correct, it wouldn't mean much if I also - in all seriousness - told the story of how my grandfather was able to defeat many enemies because he had the ability to instantly move from one location to another, could take a bullet to his chest with no injury, could fly, etc. All the historic accuracy in my book wouldn't 'prove' that my grandfather had these superhuman abilities. It would only prove that I knew and/or had researched recent history.

Page 7:

'Internal harmony'. Books could be - and have been - written on this subject. There are whole websites dedicated to the disharmony and contradictions in the Bible. Sure - some of it I'll admit comes from not understanding or researching the Bible enough, but not all of it can be explained away. Apologetic explanations are often centered around the idea that the Bible is the word of God, and therefore has to be correct, resulting in an explanation that is circular logic.

As for the 'Reasonable differences' that are cited in the article as "proof" of the unintentional harmony of Bible writers (??); Aren't these texts supposed to be inspired, in a way no other texts have been since? One could wonder what the point of eye witnesses would be in the first place when they are all inspired anyway. If God is "whispering in their ear" as they write, why are there even seemingly discrepancies? Purple or scarlet? Why didn't God 'inspire' one of them to get it right? (this is of course only one rather insignificant example). Is the Bible selectively inspired? Or are - as is written - all the scriptures given by inspiration of God? (2 Timothy 3:16 , 1 Thessalonians 2:13) If we are to conclude that in some select parts, the Bible writers were free to write down their own, sometimes flawed memories and thoughts, why are we then to assume that the same isn't the case with for instance Paul's letters?

Page 9:

Well, this is also a very controversial subject. One only has to mention 607BC and 1914AD to get the ball rolling when it comes to JWs, and to show how people's need for Bible passages to suit their already established doctrine will make them go very far in their interpretations. But prophecy in the Bible is also controversial in itself even if we look away from JWs. This can be seen simply by going to the Wikipedia article about biblical prophecy. It is such a controversial subject that there's almost a war going on. This is often the case when people's beliefs are being challenged. Many people think the biblical prophecies were written after the fact. Some prophecies could be said to not have come to pass, like the destruction and following desolation of Tyre (and who it was that caused it), as Leolaia mentioned. But as anything else, that 'problem' is attempted to be explained away by apologetics. The book of Daniel is thought by some to have been written around 165BC, and not in the 6th. century BC. Those who already believe in the God of the Bible, will of course hold to the belief that the texts were written as genuine prophecy that came accurately to pass, and that they were written down many decades before the prophecy was to be fulfilled, while those who don't believe in the biblical God will demand extra-biblical evidence that it happened that way. My take on it is again that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and since a biblical answer would be circular reasoning ("the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true"), it would have to be from an extra-biblical source (archaeological findings that confirm the texts were written before the fulfillment of the prophecy).

Atheists will put all this together with what they have already found to be true, and as they don't believe in God, they will also deny the possibility that divine prophecies can have come to pass. Theists (Bible based such) will also put it all together with what they have already found to be true, and so they are inclined to believe that the Bible's prophecies did come accurately to pass. Personally, I must admit I would have liked some extra-biblical evidence that these prophecies were written down before the fact, before I could believe it.

The rest of the article has already been covered in this thread, so the above only covers the latest scans.

mavie

wow. thanks for the scan.

would it be possible to scan the entire awake?

Thanks.

Rooster

I no longer read new publications issued by the WTBTS. It would be like a dog returning to its vomit.

Awake! Special Issue - Can You Trust The Bible?

Share this