A question from my wife: OTWO, what do you think about women on the Pulpit?

OnTheWayOut

Out of the blue, my wife asks: What do you think about women on the Pulpit?

OTWO: Why? (Silly little paranoid me. I thought she was trying to gauge my disbelief in WTS.)

Wife: My mother has a good friend who is a Preacher. Mom asked me.

OTWO: Well, everything about headship in the Bible seems to stem from Eve being deceived,
but Adam was not deceived. That seems kind of silly. She was tricked by a powerful
spirit-being, but he deliberately broke God's commandment, so he's to be the head of
the family, and men are to be the leaders in religious matters.

Wife: God said that MAN was made in his image.

OTWO: The Bible says that. And men wrote the Bible- all men, no women as far as we know.

Wife: So you think women at the pulpit is okay?

OTWO: (Not knowing that this discussion really helps or hurts me, wanting to use it somehow)
Do you remember why I stepped aside as an elder?

Wife: Tell me again. (That means she has decided not to remember.)

OTWO: At the 2005 Elder School, they brought out that elders could have been involved in some
sins in the past, then stopped. They could admit it, no judicial committee would have to
be formed, and they could remain elders.

Wife: What kind of sins?

OTWO: In this case, it was viewing of pornography.

Wife: They must have refined that some since then?

OTWO: I was an elder up until last summer. Early in 2006, they sent out a letter explaining it.
Other elders reminded me, and I looked it up on my own- there were other sins explained
in the past, basically anything the Body of elders could consider minor in their opinions,
that elders could have admitted commiting and just be overlooked.

Any other publishers or pioneers who commit such offenses will be reproved by a judicial
committee, and restrictions and loss of privileges will be in place, but not the elders.

Wife: What's the point?

OTWO: That's what the men who were not deceived do. They deliberately manipulate things.
Women could do no worse than that.
What do you think about women on the pulpit?

Wife: The Bible says women should not teach the congregation.

OTWO: NO, I didn't ask what you understand the Bible to say, I asked, "What do YOU think?"

Wife: I think we should follow the Bible.

OTWO: It's okay to use your mind. It's not wrong to analyze a thing and THINK.

Wife: Well, I will just follow the Bible.

OTWO: Okay. (I just want to get a point in before she drops it.)
Besides, what should a Witness, who is so sure that Watchtower is the only true religion
even care what other religions do? If you are sure that their priests and rabbis and such are
following Satan, what difference does it make?

Wife: Good point. Thanks. (she is done)

What do you all have to add to this gem?

bebu

Is your mother in law a JW? Why would she have a good friend who is a preacher? Is this preacher a woman, like it sounds?

bebu

AnneB

OTWO: Well, everything about headship in the Bible seems to stem from Eve being deceived,
but Adam was not deceived. That seems kind of silly. She was tricked by a powerful
spirit-being, but he deliberately broke God's commandment, so he's to be the head of
the family, and men are to be the leaders in religious matters.

Eve made a mistake and did "wrong".

Adam made a calculated decision to do "wrong".

Afterward, Adam got put in charge? Hmmmmmm....

Maybe women in the pulpit isn't so bad!

:)

Scully

Give her The Red Tent to read (by Anita Diamant).

Tell her that no matter how flat you make a pancake, it always has two sides. This is the other side of the pancake that we refer to as the Bible. Sure, The Red Tent is fiction, but it tells the story of Dinah from a completely different point of view - her own perspective - rather than the patriarchal point of view that we've been accustomed to believe it to be.

I think it might open her mind to the possibilities that women didn't always agree with the men in Bible times, and didn't necessarily agree with the men's form of worship either. Did you ever wonder about the "family idols" that Rachel hid from Jacob, and why she would have them?

When she's read the story, ask her the question about women in the pulpit again.

mimimimi

And men wrote the Bible - no women as far as we know. I have begun to wonder about that. Are some of the things in the Bible ideas of the men who wrote them and God allowed it because his main idea was still gotten across? This subjection to men is a pet peeve of mine.

llbh

Hi othwo

I agree if women can do the job as well as or better than men why not. I saw a number of candidates for an interview a young female appeared lot better than the others she got the job. The Jws would freak out if they had female elders. might even be better!

Awakened07

Wife: God said that MAN was made in his image.

Yes - but then again, not so much:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. | So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Seems more like 'mankind' if you ask me. Not that I care much. But for the sake of argument.

As for Paul... It's ironic (to me) that one argument the WBTS will use for there being four gospels, is that they were eye witnesses to the events, and that even though their accounts vary, that's to be expected, since they saw it from their own perspectives. This must mean that they wrote down their own recollections of that happened. For instance, one of them said a garment was purple, the other said scarlet. This again must mean they were free to write it down as they saw it. If they were inspired in this instance, there'd be no need for several corroborating witnesses in the first place, 'cause God is the ultimate authority (many [most, actually] other accounts in the Bible is after all not corroborated by several witnesses). This again leads us (me) to thinking that if they were allowed to write down their own accounts "undoctored" by God, then we can assume that Paul's rather personal letters to congregations reflect his personal opinions as well. Why not?

Scully

So the ~~Bible~~ Apostle Paul says "I do not permit a woman to teach".

This is notwithstanding her ability to do so. Why would having a penis make a man more qualified to teach than a woman?

Why is it that religion is the only domain where gender bias is not only allowed by general consensus, but embraced by those whom it oppresses? Would your wife tolerate gender bias in the workplace? if she were being served at a store or a restaurant? if she were a patient in a hospital?

What kind of cruel joke is it for a "loving god" to give a female the intelligence to articulate thoughts in such a manner that she would make an excellent teacher, yet withhold that privilege from her on the basis of not having a penis?

flipper

I think your wife has some cognitive dissidence going on ,in that she probably is debating these things within herself, but doesn't want you to know. She wants to remain in control . I think you did real well giving her things to think about though . Only time will tell which way she will go

jgnat

OOps. Entered too fast. Next time if you have a chance, why not ask her what the great women of the bible DID, and if Jehovah approved? That is, focus on the positives rather than the SHOULD's.

http://www.womeninthebible.net/

I read an account from a woman preacher who really made me think about the issue. She asked, "What if God has called you to the Ministry? Can you disobey that call, not matter what you might believe?" Her answer of course, is that she had to obey the call.

A question from my wife: OTWO, what do you think about women on the Pulpit?

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