Is agnostic different from athiest? How so?

wanderlustguy

I know the answer, because I am agnostic. It is strange to me that people assume if you say you are agnostic that it means you don't believe in God. From Wiki...

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.

So in reality, an Agnostic could be just as close to believing in God as not. Personally I believe in a creator, just not the bastard that likes killing people to prove he's God, and I definitely believe it's kind of insulting to the concept to promote even the concept that "he" is a "he". Everyone knows life has always come from females...but if we called her she then there'd be all these men with more to be fighting about.

On to the point...is the common assumption that agnostics and athiests are the same? Are you agnostic and do you find the assumptions create undue friction due to misunderstanding? Have you ever known someone so educated and certain of themselves that they could have been sitting in church, praying, and be able to tell you in front of the preacher, pastor, etc that they are agnostic, or more specifically an agnostic thiest?

Just curious.

WLG - Just plain old agnostic...

bisous

I have never felt the common assumption is they are the same. The skepticism is an interesting twist...I always viewed agnostics as believing in something ... higher power of sorts. Atheists do not ascribe to a creator or higher power. *bisous' definition only*

Gopher

Can this atheist give your question a go? (Please note the "e" is before the "i".)

Agnostic comes from the words meaning "without knowledge". It is tempting to classify people into "believers", "agnostic" and "atheist". For a long while after leaving JW-land, I felt comfortable calling myself agnostic. It was a good middle ground.

Then it was pointed out to me that in reality, EVERYONE is agnostic. Nobody can prove with scientific certainty that God (or gods) exists. Some believe they've heard him or have seen signs of some kind, but those claims cannot be universally accepted as proof.

So -- the question then becomes, do you BELIEVE in a deity, or not? Some agnostics choose for various reasons to believe. Atheists don't think the reasons for belief are strong enough. In other words, some agnostics are atheist.

Most atheists are not "anti-theist" or against God, and most aren't even dogmatic about there NOT being a god. Some believers have said that atheists HATE God. However, how can you "be against" or "hate" something in which you do not fully believe? (I often cite the example of Santa Claus -- if you don't believe in him any longer, does that mean you are anti-Santa or anti-Christmas?)

onacruse

Agnostic means literally, "I don't know." A situational recognition.

Atheist means, "I am sure that there is no God." A positive assertion.

No one can prove that God doesn't exist, any more than any one can prove that God does exist.

Therefore, by definition, we must all recognize ourselves as agnostics.

Just my 2 cents.

wanderlustguy

Therefore, by definition, we must all recognize ourselves as agnostics.

I agree...but that recognition is the thing that is so elusive. How hard it is to realize that you don't know, and then face it.

But I think it is the first step to real knowledge, realization that no one living now or before really knows or knew the definite answers. Everything has been hearsay since, well, lets just say the Bible is real, a couple of thousand years. And face it, imagine any one of those guys plopped down in a 2007 Buick and see how smart you think they are then.

The only way to find out is to not be here anymore.

Gopher

Craig,

I need to differ with you on one point.

An atheist doesn't necessarily say "I am sure there is no God". Some atheists say that, they are called hard atheists.

Most of us are soft atheist, mainly saying "I choose to live as if there is no God". It's a subtle but important difference. It is not dogmatic as in "I am sure".

Stated another way, all atheists live without belief in a God who has any impact at all on us as humans.

purplesofa

from THE GOD DELUSION by Richard Dawkins

page 50-51

1. Stong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of CG Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'

2. Very HIgh porbability but shot 100 percent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'

3. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'

4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiproblable.'

5. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic, but leaning toward athiesm. 'I dont know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'

6. Very low probability but short of zero. De facto atheist. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'

7. Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'

Dawkins counts himself as a 6 but leaning towards 7.

Gopher

Leslie -- thanks for posting that definition!

Most atheists are a '6' on the 7-point Dawkins scale. A minority of atheists are hard or strong ones and rank a '7'.

purplesofa

A minority of atheists are hard or strong ones and rank a '7'

yeah, Dawkins said he be surprised to meet many people in catagory 7

Unlike ONE that has many.

LtCmd.Lore

No one can prove that God doesn't exist, any more than any one can prove that God does exist.
Therefore, by definition, we must all recognize ourselves as agnostics.

By that definition we must all recognize ourselves as agnostic about Fairies, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and Goombas.

No one can prove that Goombas don't exist, and more than any one can prove that they do exist.

So are you agnostic about Goombas? By definition, you are.

Thus, the term agnostic is entirely nonmeaningful.

Lore - W.W.S.D?

Is agnostic different from athiest? How so?

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