Opposite doctrines taught at the same time:

by whyizit 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  AlphaOmega

  They seem to attribute the words in Rev 22 to Jesus at times, and to Jehovah other times. Unless I misread what they intended in the scans above. What I meant was that they seem confused as to the identity, it seems muddled. Most Trinitarians use the Alpha/Omega argument in Revelation to show that Jesus/God are one.

  In just reading it in both places in Revelation, sans Watchtower filters [or at least as best I can after 40 yrs indoctrination], I find it hard not to find that Jesus claims the Title for himself. That would clinch the Jesus is God argument pretty well, taken by itself.

  Jeff

  Great - I understood. You are so right. One JW even explained it to me that as the message was being given by God through Jesus that it would sound a little "odd", they then go onto chop and change who is speaking - even to claim that BOTH are speaking :

  *** re chap. 44 p. 319 pars. 15-16 Revelation and You ***

  15

  Jesus now adds a final word of encouragement: "Hethatbearswitnessofthesethingssays,‘Yes;Iamcomingquickly.’" (Revelation22:20a) Jesus is "the faithful and true witness." (Revelation 3:14) If he bears witness to the visions of Revelation, they must be true. Both he and Jehovah God himself repeatedly stress the fact that they are coming "quickly," or soon, Jesus here saying that for the fifth time. (Revelation 2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20) The "coming" is to execute judgment on the great harlot, the political "kings" and all others who oppose "the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ."—Revelation 11:15; 16:14, 16; 17:1, 12-14.

  16

  Your knowing that Jehovah God and Jesus are coming quickly should encourage you to keep "close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah." (2 Peter 3:12) Any seeming stability of the earth of Satan’s system of things is illusory. Any seeming success that the heaven of the worldly rulers under Satan might achieve is transitory. These things are passing away. (Revelation 21:1) The only permanence is to be found in Jehovah, his Kingdom under Jesus Christ, and his promised new world. Never lose sight of that!—1 John 2:15-17.
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  Leolaia

  " 'Look! I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay every man according to what he deserves. I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie. I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star' " (Revelation 22:12-16).

  The Society in the NWT artifically splits v. 12-16 between two speakers by means of punctuation, but against this one may note:

  1) The Alpha and Omega's promise "I am coming quickly (erkhomai takhu)" in v. 12 is repeated by Jesus in v. 20 (and the Lord God in v. 6-7).

  2) The Alpha and Omega's promise to "bring the reward to every man according to what he deserves" in v. 12 is made by Jesus in 2:23 (and Yahweh in the OT, i.e. Psalm 28:4, Isaiah 40:10, 62:11, Jeremiah 17:10).

  3) The title "the First and the Last" is applied to Jesus in 1:17-18 and 2:8 (and Yahweh in the OT, cf. Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, 48:12), and it expresses the same thought as "Alpha and Omega" (the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, cf. the triplet of epithets in v. 12 which indicates that they are semantically equivalent).

  4) Jesus says that he is the one who "has sent my angel to make these revelations to you" in v. 16, whereas v. 6 says that the Lord God "has sent his angel to reveal to his servants what is soon to take place".

  5) The two epithets of "Alpha and Omega" and "Beginning and End" are applied to "the One sitting on the throne" in 21:5-6 who offers "water from the well of life to those who are thirsty" and the one who drinks will have him as "his God" (v. 7), whereas 7:17 states that the Lamb is "the one at the center of the throne" who "will lead them to springs of living water" (compare Jesus in John 4:10-14, 7:37-38, 20:28).

  6) In 3:21 Jesus says that he "sat down with my Father on his throne" and ch. 21-22 depict a joint throneship of Jesus and God with them united as the "temple" and united in shining as the sun (21:22-23, 22:3-5)

  7) The epithet "the one who was, who is, and who is to come", applied explicitly to the Lord God in 1:4, 8, 4:8, 11:17, 16:5-7, is echoed in the statement by Jesus about himself: "I was dead, and now I live forever and ever" (1:18), and Jesus refers to himself as "the one living" (ho zón) and "living forever and ever" (zón eis tous aiónas tón aiónón) in 1:18 (cf. the same expression referring to God in Deuteronomy 32:40, and especially Daniel 12:7, which is quoted in Revelation 10:6 and applied to the Creator and the intensive form attributed to Jesus in 1:18 is applied to God in 15:7). That the "one who was, who is, and who is to come" epithet has overtones of Jesus' death and resurrection is confirmed in 17:8 which parodies the phrase by applying it to the Beast who was killed and brought back to life: "The Beast you have seen once was and now is not, he is yet to come up from the Abyss".

  Whatever theological implications these all have is up to the interpreter, but those are the basic facts of the matter.
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  AlphaOmega

  Leolaia... I keep saying it, but for the record : "Amazing".

  ...and the video ???
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  jaguarbass

  This isnt just a Wactower issue. The bible is one big book of contradictions and falsehoods.
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  Leolaia

  Oh, the video was from Wonder Showzen, a hilarious show (spoof of Sesame Street and children's programming) that used to be on MTV2.
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  WTWizard

  I bet the reason for teaching opposite doctrines at the same time is to confuse the hounders. In their confusion, they have grounds to hound everyone in the flock, which they use at their discretion. They cannot disfellowship everyone (or the Tower would come down). But they have to keep everyone in fear, so they will be in submission to those taking the lead.

  It also makes it impossible for the average person to figure out what is actually "right". Hence, they need to be led by the Governing Body lest they do the wrong thing. Pure guesswork designed to force permission-seeking behavior among the members. And, of course the answer is always do ever more for the Tower.