Remember when it was Russia who tortured and held people w/o charges not US

UnConfused

And not only torture and holding people without charges.

Listening in on phone calls.

Checking out the library books people take out.

We've become the Soviet Union in some ways.

MinisterAmos

Our Government is just as bad as Saddam Hussein ever was.

And yes I'm including the chem weapon attacks; we just spread St90 over the Eastern seaboard.

What I don't understand is that WE are getting around the torture by waterboarding thing by NOT defining torture, and by not calling the prisoners prisoners, but detainees. Also I believe that WE have prosecuted folks for similar sins as waterboarding.

Forscher

My understanding is that Russia still does.

Forscher

Mincan

If I were an American, jesus, if I were a citizen of civilisation, I would be looking at the executive orders that have been made by George W. Bush.

Americans no longer have the ancient right to Habeus Corpus (to know why you are being arrested/detained/tortured)

Bush can declare martial law for anything that he alone considers worthy.

The power has been stripped from the American judicial and legislative systems, put into executive offices, and people who are appointed, not elected.

For Vulcan's sake, all the moves have been made. One more "terrrrrrrr attack" and goodbye to "business as usual".

I often think if I ever want to go into the states or not, I'm afraid I'd never be allowed back out!

stillajwexelder

Britain is a free country and democracy - but there are cameras everywhere and you had better believe that MI5 listens into conversations and monitors e-mail etc. I would rather live there than Russia/USSR or saudi or Iran etc.

So tell me where would you prefer to live? USA or Russia etc.

stillajwexelder

When National Security is threatened (or perceived to be) other things we have taken for granted tend to go out of the window

OnTheWayOut

My wife and I were watching a television program which caused us to raise the issue of
subjecting people to torture or what they call "no permanent damage" with degrading
or disorienting techniques. Once again, my wife refrained from making an opinion, possibly
afraid of violating some WT doctrine.

I spoke up. If you can break somebody's arm or subject them to bizarre treatment, saying
it's necessary to get the truth quickly, what happens if your prisoner won't talk because he
is not guilty/ doesn't have the information you request? Who decides that "We all know he's
guilty/ has the knowledge? Also, aren't the interrogators just terrorists themselves, just as
bad as those they torture?

I went on to say how Americans were up in arms over the way Germans and Japanese treated
prisoners during WW One, and even more upset at Vietnamese or Cambodian torture methods
in later years.

People wonder why Americans are hated around the world. Along with some enemies, many
perfectly innocent Afghanis were picked up and detained at Guantanamo Bay for years, being
given no due process and no status as even prisoners of war.

nvrgnbk

stillajwexelder

I went on to say how Americans were up in arms over the way Germans and Japanese treated
prisoners during WW One, and even more upset at Vietnamese or Cambodian torture methods
in later years. People wonder why Americans are hated around the world. Along with some enemies, many
perfectly innocent Afghanis were picked up and detained at Guantanamo Bay for years, being
given no due process and no status as even prisoners of war.

Have you heard the phrase "If you cant beat them, join them"

Remember when it was Russia who tortured and held people w/o charges not US

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