Re. Confused...

by millymollymandy 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  millymollymandy

  Hello, just updating on my post from a few days ago... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/145434/1.ashx I replied today then realised no one will see it because it's waaay back in the list of new topics :)

  Well, I couldn't go through with talking to my boyfriend yesterday about all this. I felt like if I did it would ruin everything (which is pretty telling, I suppose!). I'm going to try again, but it's so hard when we've hardly ever talked about it before. It's so strange - we kind of talk about certain parts of both of our religions to each other for sort of informational purposes, but never in relation to our own relationship.

  2. Marrying an "unbeliever" is not a disfellowshipping offence, but it is also frowned upon. Are you intending to marry, or are you happy with the current arrangement?

  We've both hinted to each other a few times that we would like to get married at some point, but we've never talked about it properly. I'm starting to get a bit fed up with how things are at the moment, because I do feel a bit like a part-time girlfriend (we only get to see each other for a few hours every weekend). I think that if we were to get married my own family would eventually be fine with it, despite us being of different religions.

  3. Sex before marriage is definitely a disfellowshipping offence. It's called fornication and there are specific bible verses warning against it. Find out from your boyfriend if he ever intends to come clean about this. Are you a big part of his life or simply side entertainment? Use protection until you find out how serious he is.

  I doubt very much that he's told anyone we're sleeping together, and that he would do so out of choice. To be honest I would have thought it would have been obvious seeing as we've been together for so long, but perhaps it isn't. I think I am a big part of his life, but I don't know how big. It's hard when we live miles away from each other and I'm not entirely sure how much of his time he devotes to the JWs.

  Well there you go, I'm still in the same confused state as I was before. I know it needs to be sorted out, and soon, but I'm so scared. When I do tackle it though, my main points of discussion will be:

  1. Exactly how devout are you? Do you want to leave if not very?
  2. Are your parents hoping that I will convert? Do you know that I would never do that?
  3. When it comes down to it, are you more likely to choose them or me? (harsh, but necessary?)

  Does that sound okay?
• 

  momzcrazy

  Hi there, mmm! I went back to get a bit of info on your situation. I think your questions sound good.

  Do you talk on the phone alot? Long distance is hard. What does he do during the week while you're apart? Would he be willing to move closer or vice versa?

  Your questions are important for anyone of different faiths who are considering marriage. After five years I would be wondering what is going on too. Since you know him better I would find out the answers to your questions in the best way you can, over the phone or in person. They are so important. But really find out what he wants out of this relationship, especially if you are ready for the M word. If you are staying in for the long haul, maybe you can move, or he can. Then you can spend more time together and be around his family more. I hate to say it, but he may be keeping it the way it is so he doesn't get in trouble. I was raised a Witness and being disfellowshipped is the worst thing that can happen to a Witness. Most lose friends, family and are cut off from everything they have known. But his parents sound supportive.

  I would also research the Witnesses to see if you can live with one, if he choses both of you. Many are able to do it fine. My husband was a Witness like me when we married, but left it 8 years ago. I just left last month. But we did OK, been together 16yrs. If a Witness does everything he "should" it is very time consuming, time away from you. There are 3 meetings a week, service at least once a week, one big convention and two smaller ones.

  Being here is a great start. Even reading old posts has helped me in my situation.

  Good luck! Let us know how things go!

  momzcrazy
• 

  millymollymandy

  Do you talk on the phone alot? Long distance is hard. What does he do during the week while you're apart? Would he be willing to move closer or vice versa?

  We talk 3-4 times a week. He works full-time on weekdays, as do I. He's in a band and has practice twice a week and spends Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday mornings in JW meetings/study. I'm not sure what else he does - if he spends a lot of time knocking on doors and the like then he never tells me about it.

  As for moving, I moved from my hometown to Manchester nearly a year ago for a bit of independence, and also so it would be easier for us to spend time with each other (although I didn't actually move closer to him as such). I don't know whether he'd be willing to move here. He probably likes the idea but wouldn't want to upset his parents by doing so. To be honest I wouldn't want to move to where he is purely because his hometown is a bit of a dive and also because I have a good job in Manchester, but if I absolutely had to I would.

  I hate to say it, but he may be keeping it the way it is so he doesn't get in trouble. I was raised a Witness and being disfellowshipped is the worst thing that can happen to a Witness. Most lose friends, family and are cut off from everything they have known. But his parents sound supportive.

  I've had the same thought myself more than a few times! But I was always fine with it because I thought 'as long as it means we can be together, it doesn't matter'. I am terrified that he will get kicked out because of me though. For obvious reasons I do think he's not as devout to the cause as others (the first time we met he was stoned!) but at the same time I think he's too scared of being cut off from his family to do anything about it.

  Oh! I just spoke to him on the phone. I told him I would ring him back in about half an hour because 'we have things to discuss'. I am definitely doing this tonight... :o/
• 

  drew sagan

  1. Exactly how devout are you? Do you want to leave if not very?
  2. Are your parents hoping that I will convert? Do you know that I would never do that?
  3. When it comes down to it, are you more likely to choose them or me? (harsh, but necessary?)

  It's a good start.
  
  But I think you would want to step it up a notch. An excellent question to ask would be "have you ever critically researched your religions claims outside of its own books?"
  
  Try to see how open he is to open examination of his religion. This will be an excellent way to test him out. If he is refuses to do so, then rest assured some day he will turn back to it.
  
  If he actually says he would be interested in critically examining the faith, then stop back here and we'll give you a nice list of books that he can read ;)
• 

  momzcrazy

  Very good points Drew. Wouldn't it be nice if he left and they could live happily ever after?

  mmm, please don't ever feel he would be kicked out because of you! He is making his decisions on his own. Seeing as how he was high when you met, maybe there's hope.

  Good Luck!!!!

  momzcarzy
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  millymollymandy

  Well I bit the bullet and asked, over the phone. It was painful, but I at least finally established that he isn’t baptised yet and that he’s very confused about a lot of things - which in one way is bad for him, but is also extremely good because it means he’s not quite yet going in the opposite direction to me.

  I felt bad for bringing it up though. Even though I think I have every right to find out these things, I think he was a bit resentful of me doing so, because it means he actually has to think about it now...

  He kept telling me not to 'look for answers on the internet' and to ask him instead, but he did express some curiosity about what I've been reading, so I think this might be a positive step? He hasn't got the internet at home but next time he comes round I might gently encourage him to have a look for himself, if he wants to.
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  AK - Jeff

  I didn't see the other thread - Welcome to the board.

  You are a thinker, and that is what will make sure you come out of this 'relationship' intact. By now you understand that no union of a Jw and a non-JW will ever be harmonious if the Jw is committed to his religion. If he is wishy-washy about it, it might work - but then likely you would not wish to be with a wishy-washy person anyway.

  Drew makes the point that is crucial here - your BF has the best opportunity before he is dipped to honestly examine his religious choice. If he does not do it now - likely he never will, Or at least he won't for a very long time. I make a simple suggestion here; obtain a copy of a book called Crisis of Conscience, written by Raymond Franz a former member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in Brooklyn. Read it carefully, particularly the portions that deal with false reasoning and argumentation in the JW literature. Then give your BF a copy and ask him to read it too. By then, you are well informed on the religion and it's fallacies, and will be able to discuss it intelligently with him.

  If he refuses to read the book - then you have a BF who is willingly playing the sheep lead to slaughter. If he does read it, it might open his eyes to the depth of wrong-headed logic that he is accepting as 'Truth'. At least the two of you will be on the same page of thought. The matter will be opened for discussion.

  If he was Lutheran and you were Church of England - no big deal to me [though it might be to some]. But if he becomes your husband, you need to understand that he will be living with a person that he assumes will be killed at Armageddon, and that he will live on forever without you. That is not likely to make for a long committment in my opinion. You would be just one stop on the way to Paradise for him. I don't know about you - but that would put a hell of a dent in most relationships made 'unto death do us part'. His vision of your death would not be as a kind old lady who had spent her life with him - it would be far different in his mind as long as you were an unbeliever - and so he would spend great effort if he loves you trying to 'save' you from that eternal death. You would become his eternal subject for conversion - his motives would be pure, but it could less than pleasant from your end.

  I hope you work it out in a way that makes you both happy. Well wishes to you dear. This is a crossroads like no other you will likely face in life. Read the signs carefully.

  Jeff
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  momzcrazy

  Way to go! You did it!

  There is hope is he's now baptized yet. Most are by the time by the they 13 or 14.

  Witnesses are taught not to look to the internet for answers, this is where apostates are.So I'm sure that was an automatic reaction. I know someone here will be able to suggest some good books you can use too.

  I hate to say it but if you do get married you're going to be bringing up and dealing with uncomfortable issues alot. You handled this one beautifully!!!!
• 

  vitty

  Although hes told you not to go on the internet. I think if you pass on some sites that youve been on and have found informative, then im sure he will look himself. Remember most witnesses NEVER look or read about anything critical about their religion, they are not allowed too.

  He will be unaware of the negative things of his relgion but he may have doubts himself, if hes in his mid twenties that a sign.
• 

  jgnat

  Wow, he has verrrry patient parents. He's dodged baptism for 5+ years, and all the solicitations of marriage at the hall. Not only that, he's in a band! With all the activity in his life (band, weekaday job and meeting obligations), it's a wonder he gets two hours a week with you!

  I imagine he's been living in limbo for quite a while, not sure why he hasn't fully committed to the society, or to you. He has to spend some time thinking about what he really wants. The band activity is very unique. What does he play, and why does he like it? I'd like to know what his honest answers are. I am betting in his answer is the key to his natural personality.

  If you want to spend the time and energy, you can help him separate his two lives and figure out what he wants. I would recommend you reading Steve Hassan's Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves This will help you avoid newbie mistakes when dealing with a cultist.

  By the way, when he warned you off the internet, you were talking to the cultist side of his personality. The society warns it's members of the dangers dozens of times a year. If I were you, I'd hold off showing him what you found. He'll be in full cultist mode then, and not very flexible or reasonable.

  I'd start by talking about his band, his hopes and dreams for the future. Move on from there.