BBC Radio 5 Live recording and transcript

by IT Support 23 Replies latest watchtower medical

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  llbh

  Thanks heard it live but useful for future reference

  llbh
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  IT Support

  Thanks for all the kind comments, I'm glad it was helpful.

  Though I'd no idea when I started it would take so long to type up, I only finished it this morning.

  HS, good point about the kids looking on the net in 20 years. With any luck, their dad will have seen the light long before then. In the meantime, he's still got to live with himself, poor guy. How will he be able to look himself in the mirror each morning, and know he refused to save his wife's life? He's as much a victim of WT's evil blood policy as Emma.

  A couple of thoughts on the show itself:

  • I got the impression the show had originally been planned around the question of whether a doctor should be able to override a patient's wishes, possibly with just a passing reference to JWs. ("The General Medical Council was drawing up new guidelines for doctors on when they can give medical treatment against the patient’s wishes.") But in his introduction, Richard Bacon said "Now tonight I’m asking if religion should stay out of medicine," which a totally different question. I suspect the story of Emma Gough's death broke while they were preparing the show, and they added it on at the last minute for some human interest.
  
  
  • I thought Richard Bacon handled it well; he's obviously a thoughful, intelligent person. But I think he was totally unprepared for the level of obfuscation that came from Ernie Reid, the HLC guy. It would really need someone of Paxman's calibre to pin down a slippery, lying weasel like Ernie Reid. ("[RB] And if someone who needs a blood transfusion decides to have one, who is a Jehovah’s Witness, and their life is saved, what happens to them then? ... [ER] Well, nothing happens really ..." Really??) A couple of times Richard Bacon gave a very exasperated sigh, where he knew Ernie Reid was lying or using flawed reasoning, but Richard didn't know enough background to pin him down.
  
  
  • I loved Richard Bacon's comment to Ernie Reid that "you … presume to know a lot of what God thinks!"
  
  
  • I bet Ernie Reid was groaning and inwardly holding his head in his hands when JW Yvette came on the phone! How many times has the Society told JWs not to phone in to such shows, they're properly trained to lie like Ernie is!
  
  
  • Richard Bacon forgot to ask Rachel Underwood precisely what changes in the law she is campaigning for!
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  blueviceroy

  I am amazed at the tenacity of a fool to cling to such garbage. He (the JW )conflicted so many times with himself , I'm sure if he read the transcript and seperated his ego from his beliefs he could see what a dolt he was.

  That is so frustrating to read , that ignorance and stupidity, bleh , I'm glad my mind works.
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  free2think

  Thanks for posting this IT.

  As a side note its so weird seeing Ernie Reed's name here as the person being interviewed. I know him and his fam from when i was dub, small world huh.
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  ThomasCovenant

  Hi

  Thanks very much IT Support for the hard work.

  I listen to Richard Bacon occassionally and my opinion of him has just increased. He did well in a frustrating situation.

  This case has been widely publicized in the UK and I can't see that any sane person would think more favourably about JW's after this and the recent paedophile that escaped a prison sentence. It seems to me that Big J must be getting a bit embarrassed by his people, bringing reproach upon his name.

  Richard Bacon 'No one tells you,no elder within the church,ever tells anybody they shouldn't have a blood transfusion?'

  Ernie Reid 'No, no one can tell you what you should, or shouldn't do, Richard.'

  Thomas Covenant 'That's bollocks, Ernie'

  I feel another telephone call to London Bethel may be in order just to clarify this point.

  Thanks

  Thomas Covenant
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  IWillBeDubbedNoMore

  Thank you for your hard work ... Very much appreciated
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  tijkmo

  We have so many talks on the blood issue

  well she just contradicted ernie eh.

  i too thought richard handled it well...was pretty fair all round - even checking the exjw by pointing out that her decision not to have blood was what she believed to be correct at the time.

  i just dont get why they are so afraid to say yes that is what we teach, that's what the bible says, that's what god says and we are proud to uphold it. thats what i used to say as a witness cos i was proud. he was acting as if he is ahamed of his belief

  (guess that's why i was not invited to be on the liaison or public relations commitees lol)
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  Enjoying freedom

  I would love to see Ernie go head to head in a verbal battle of wits with Jeremy Paxman! I think we would all know the outcome of that!

  The side stepping issue regarding "not being disfellowshipped for accepting a blood transfusion", probably stems from the case that went to the European Court of Human Rights in 2000 (approx). Bulgaria would only accept JWs as a religion if the JW religion agreed not to disfellowship JWs who accepted a blood transfusion. The JW reps agreed to this in court. Then there was a swift change in JW policy so that wef from June 2001 if a JW accepted a blood transfusion on behalf of himself or his family it would be taken as an automatic disassociation on his part.

  I did have a copy of the judgment, but can't put my hands on it right now...

  We all know however that the outcome of disassociation or disfellowshipping is identical, ie shunning. But the JW religion would not be taking the action to disfellowship the individual, the action of disassociation would be taken by the JW who accepted the blood transfusion.

  You can just feel the warmth and christian kindness eminating from the JW religion can't you?? Liars and hypocrites!

  Enjoying freedom
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  Enjoying freedom

  Wednesday, 14 June, 2000, 15:00 GMT 16:00 UK Jehovah's Witnesses drop transfusion ban Transfusions will no longer lead to expulsion By the BBC's Religious Affairs Correspondent Jane Little Leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement have revoked a strict ruling that their members automatically face ex-communication if they accept blood transfusions. Jehovah's Witnesses: facts An unorthodox Christian sect Based in New York 6m members in more than 200 countries Founded in 1884 They took the controversial decision at a secret meeting in New York, following years of recrimination from ex-members and non-Jehovah's Witnesses over the ban. The religious community insists that receiving blood is still wrong. But under the changes, transfusions have been relegated to "non-disfellowshipping events" - in other words you will not be thrown out of the religion if you have one. That may come as cold comfort to many who have watched loved ones die because they refused blood. Only last week, a British Jehovah's Witness who lost pints of blood in a machete attack, renounced his faith at the last minute so that he could have the transfusion which saved his life. Climbdown or procedural change? But if this looks like a major climbdown, a spokesman for the organisation - also called Watch Tower - insisted it was merely a procedural change. He said not taking blood remains a biblical injunction and a core tenet of the faith. If a member has a transfusion, they will, by their actions disassociate themselves from the religion. The ruling emphasises personal choice, he said. He added that if they repented afterwards, they would be offered spiritual comfort and the possibility of redemption. But the distinction between what in other words amounts to resigning rather than being sacked, does seem to be a major shift. Jehovah's Witnesses, who number six million worldwide, have suffered years of adverse publicity over blood transfusions. It now looks like they quietly want to downplay this issue and to emphasise less controversial elements of the faith.

  </form> Search BBC News Online Advanced search options BBC RADIO NEWS BBC ONE TV NEWS WORLD NEWS SUMMARY BBC NEWS 24 BULLETIN PROGRAMMES GUIDE See also: 09 Mar 99 | Health Jehovah's Witnesses 'must be allowed to die' 09 Feb 99 | Europe Moscow seeks ban on Jehovah's Witnesses 13 May 99 | Health Liver transplant for Jehovah's witness 20 Mar 00 | Europe Italy recognises Buddhists and Jehovah's Witnesses 13 Mar 00 | Health Jehovah's couple in bloodless transplant Internet links: British Organ Donor Society British Transplantation Society The Lancet Watch Tower The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites Top World stories now: Crash pilots given conflicting orders Mass resignations rock Turkey WorldCom chiefs refuse to testify Israel reopens talks with Palestinians New hope for Aids vaccine

  END OF BBC NEWS STORY

  Just for everyone's information regarding the change from it being a disfellowshipping "offence" to a disassociation "offence"!!!!

  Enjoying freedom
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  Borgia

  I am sure if someone like Richard had been more prepaired to counter mr Reids BS, yeah, it might have been very interesting to hear Mr Reid being pinned down. However, I did not think of the sighs to be that bad. Don't you think they came at the right spot and perfectly marked the utter stupidity of mr Reids words? I feel that the program did not reflect positively on JW doctrine.

  As I said, my friend mentioned this tragedy to me the other day. Actually he was shocked and to sum it up: it is hardly justifyable, to say the least. It is foolish, How can the husband ever live with himself. Allright, he can fool himself by convincing himself that he did what God had required of him. But deep in the core of his heart.....I am sure there will remain a little voice saying: You should 've done differently. This is your fault.

  My wife still is a serious steady going little JW and I seriously have to discuss this issue with her, I think. Thanks again for your efforts IT Support.

  Cheers

  Borgia