Baptismal vows in Norwegian?

by kifoy 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  onacruse

  This got me to thinking: I don't recall that it was always the case that someone presenting for baptism even had to answer any questions! This was the earliest reference I could find regarding this:

  w 42 302

  Before proceeding with your baptism it is proper, first, that you answer affirmatively these questions to show you are taking this step with the Scriptural understanding thereof and are fit for baptism as a devoted servant of the Lord, fully responsible to Him:

  (1) Do you believe in Jehovah God the Father, that "salvation belongeth unto Jehovah," and that Christ Jesus is his Son in whose blood your sins are washed away and by whom salvation comes to you from God?

  (2) Have you therefore confessed your sins to God and asked for cleansing by Christ Jesus, and therefore turned away from sin and the world, and consecrated yourself without reservation to God to do his will?
• 

  kifoy

  Interesting.
  
  So before 1942 (or something) there's no record of baptismal vows? But they got baptised, right?
  
  I remember being told that in the 70's (and/or before) you did not even need the elders approval, or meeting with the elders before baptism.
  That you simply turned up in front, answered the two questions, and got baptised. This meant that many got baptised without really knowing what they did.
  
  But then again, even if I met with the elders, I can't say I really knew what i got myself in to by being baptised...
  
  Can we say that the level of mind control in the WTS has increased over the years?
  
  kifoy
  just about to finish the book "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
• 

  AnnOMaly

  Hi kifoy

  So before 1942 (or something) there's no record of baptismal vows? But they got baptised, right?

  I'm a little hazy on this right now, but in Russell's and in the early Rutherford era, church baptisms were still valid in the eyes of the Society/org. So although a person could get baptized as a Bible Student if they wanted, it wasn't obligatory as their previous baptism in 'Christendom' was still recognized. Of course all that changed.
• 

  kifoy

  Thank you, Ann.
  
  I didn't know this.
  Does anyone have in printing the "new light" being explained, that other church baptism no longer was "valid"?
  
  kifoy
• 

  onacruse

  As late as 1952 this is what the WT said:

  *** w52 3/1 p. 159 Questions From Readers ***

  ? If one has already been baptized, does he need to repeat the baptism after he gets a knowledge of the truth?—R. G., Canada.

  Whether a person is to be baptized again or not is determined by his understanding of baptism when he first underwent it. Did he understand the meaning of the symbol of water immersion? Did he fully appreciate that it meant a complete dedication of his life to the Lord, to serve the Lord, to do His will? Had he made such a dedication in his mind and heart and before the Lord prior to the immersion in water, which is a public symbolizing of the previously made dedication? If so, and if the baptism was a complete submersion in water, then there is no necessity for the person to perform the symbol again. The one who does the immersing, the place of immersion, and who are present as spectators, are not the determining factors. It is the proper understanding and appreciation of baptism on the part of the one being immersed that counts. If the person did not have this understanding and appreciation, if he merely viewed baptism as a religious ceremony affiliating him with a certain church, not realizing the meaning or importance of the step and what would be thereafter required of him from a Scriptural standpoint, then when such a person comes to a knowledge of the truth and wishes to dedicate his life to the God of truth as one of His witnesses the person should symbolize this dedication that he has now made with understanding.

  But then the 1956 WT backtracked:

  *** w56 7/1 p. 406 Why One Must Be Baptized ***

  BAPTIZED A SECOND TIME

  14

  Often the question is asked whether one baptized previously in a ceremony performed by some other religious group should again be baptized when coming to an accurate knowledge of the truth and making a dedication to Jehovah. Because of what has been already said, now there is compelling reason for also saying, Yes, one must be baptized again. Obviously, by any of such religious systems one was never in reality baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," because had he been so baptized he would have appreciated the authority and office of such true Higher Powers. And if previously dedicated to Jehovah, the individual would have separated himself from such God-dishonoring Babylonish systems even before letting them baptize him. So the act of being baptized is not the important thing, but, rather, that which the act symbolizes is the element of importance.
• 

  onacruse

  Somewhat off topic, but an interesting little piece of the past:

  w 3/15/17 R6061

  The question may arise in the minds of some, Who should partake of the Memorial? We answer, Those, and those only, who have entered into a covenant with the Lord by sacrifice. This means that if we have made a full consecration unto the Lord, trusting in the merit of Christ Jesus, then it will be our privilege and our great joy to commemorate the death of the Master by partaking of the Memorial emblems and thereby testifying that we have agreed to die with Christ Jesus, and with each other as members of his body. If the opportunity has been afforded, we should have symbolized our consecration by water immersion, thus testifying to the deadness of our wills. We suggest that provision be made for the symbolizing of consecration by water immersion prior to the celebration of the Memorial, for those not yet immersed who desire to partake; but the mere fact that one had not observed baptism since being accepted of the Lord would not necessarily preclude him from partaking of the Memorial.
• 

  kifoy

  Yes, slightly OT, but hey, it's my thread

  But then the 1956 WT backtracked:

  Hm. That late.

  but the mere fact that one had not observed baptism since being accepted of the Lord would not necessarily preclude him from partaking of the Memorial

  Interesting
  
  On a different forum where I also posted the vows in Norwegian question, I was asked about the "three sets of baptismal vows in English", if the same applied to Norwegian.
  Do you happen to know anything about a third set of vows?
  
  kifoy
• 

  onacruse

  Here's one compilation (from DocBob's site http://www.docbob.org/index.php ):

  Baptismal questions from the August 1, 1966 Watchtower, p. 465:

  (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
  
  (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  Baptismal questions from the May 15, 1970 Watchtower, p. 309:

  (1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?
  
  (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?

  Baptismal questions from the May 1, 1973 Watchtower, p. 280:

  (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
  
  (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  The newest baptismal questions, from the June 1, 1985 Watchtower:

  (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
  
  (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

  With those from 1942, it looks like there might be 5 revisions? Maybe even another one or two.

  I think it goes without saying that the 1985 was the real zinger.
• 

  kifoy

  I think it goes without saying that the 1985 was the real zinger.

  Sure was. Great find. Thanks
  To bad i don't have access to my parents library. Then I could have checked the Norwegian editions of the WT for this.
  
  kifoy
• 

  Norm

  Question 1:

  "Har du på grunnlag av Jesu Kristi offer agret dine synder
  og innviet deg til Jehova for å gjøre hans vilje?"

  Question 2:

  "Forstår du at din innvielse og dåp gjør det klart at du er et av
  Jehovas vitner, som er tilsluttet Guds organisasjon, som ledes
  av hans ånd?"

  Vakttårnet 1985 side 30.

  Remember that this was the new questions where you basically
  pledge your allegiance to the WT Organisasjon.

  The "Old" questions was quite different.

  Hope this helps,

  Norman