I see what you are saying, and that is why I try to educate people on cults, so they dont all think they live in compounds and dress funny. Cults come in many varieties, some of the weirder cults may not even be as destructive as the JW's.
As far as legalized cults go, JW's are probably the worst. Granted there are much more dangerous cults out there such as the KKK and so forth, however there are many laws that keep these groups in check, where for the JW's, they almost have free reign.
Once a Cult oversteps its boundaries by actually killing people and resorting to violence, then the government moves in.
In my opinion, JW's are the most dangerous government subsidized and legitimized cult.
Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so
by B_Deserter 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Junction-Guy
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new boy
Webster's states
1. A particular system of religious worship, with referencee to its rites and ceremonies.
2. A group that devotes itself to or venerates a person or idea, fad, ect.
It may not be that way now, but Russell started the whole thing and he was definitly venerated.
The Witnesses hate the word cult...but it is one.....They hate it when people misuse words...thats their privelege....like when they misuse the word apostate.
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Gregor
I am not usually in a setting where I can expound on my JW experience with someone. It often comes up in casual conversation, like recently when someone asked me if I had ever smoked. My reply was that I had been raised in a religous cult, Jehovah's witnesses, and it was not allowed. They were only vaguely informed about them and said "I didn't know they were a cult" . My reply was, "Oh, yes they are, by any definition of the word. If you or anybody you know is ever tempted to join them you'd better look into them very closely" and that was the end of the conversation due to time and circumstances. Hopefully, I innoculated this person and it was the use of the pejorative term "cult" that made the impression.
Even though it has been explained, I still don't get why it is of any importance to bend over backwards to avoid the word because of some precise definition. I think you are a little obsessive about it.
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Amber Rose
Cults (in the modern sense) not only isolate their followers mentally, but also physically. Cult members typically live in a communal setting. ... In addition to extreme social pressure to conform, menial day-to-day tasks are strictly monitored and rules are enforced.
Sounds like Bethel to me.
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OnTheWayOut
I use the word Cult, because it specifically conjures up negative images, to do otherwise candy coats the whole mess.
So are we to simply to apply negative terms to things we don't like? According to you, yes.
What is at issue rests upon what you personally believe a cult to be, and this is different from person to person. In the vast majority of people it brings up a negative picture, but that is as far as it goes. It does not bring into peoples minds any of the dynamics that makes these groups what they areWe do apply negative terms to things we don't like. Is it different from person to person?
Are some things we see as negative actually positives to others? Of course.If the term, "CULT" brings up a negative picture, then that's a good start.
Politicians "candy coat" statements so that they aren't offending anyone, so they won't lose
their votes. I don't care about offending anyone. I have learned that I can fully use the word
"cult" with non-JW family and others that I encounter. I have never received an argument from
any of the non-JW's I have used it with. I am sure there are some non-JW's who would care to
argue the definition and it's application to JW's, but I haven't met them yet. I do try to use the
word with a few JW's and the arguments start. I hear it on JWD with the former JW's.We may be uncomfortable with the thought that we were in a cult. Our cognitive dissonance is
still working against us.Everyone is free to assign their own words and definitions. Let's switch it to a different subject
to try to understand why that's so. What if people tiptoed around the word, "crazy" ?
A person seeing a therapist doesn't want to think he is crazy. Many people who go to a
therapist are not crazy. A person who is diagnosed with a mental disorder doesn't want to
think he is crazy, and many of them are not crazy. But, if you are criminally insane, should you
still worry about being labelled "crazy" ? Some will still say YES.I am not saying JW's are like the criminally insane. I am saying that people don't like the label.
As much as they might not like it, there are those that will only apply "crazy" to the absolute
loony ones who are unable to function in society, and there are others who will apply it to
anyone who takes mind-altering drugs, sees a therapist, or acts strange. There are also
those that apply "crazy" to various stages inbetween and not to others.Most of us will agree that it is the right of others to define "crazy" according to their own standards.
I will apply that to "cult" and how others feel. I don't necessarily agree with their application of
the word, but I understand and respect their feelings. I hope they understand and respect mine. -
Paralipomenon
High Control Organization to me.
I have no problem calling a spade a spade and am not a fan of political correctness. But I just don't feel it is a cult. If people want to call them a cult, that's fine with me. I've asked it many times this topic comes up and nobody ever touches it.
"What is the difference between a high control organization and a cult? To me, a HCO is more focused on the group whereas a cult is more focused on the individual.
That's why a HCO will kick out members that disagree and a cult will publically shame the individual into staying and conforming.
Either way, it's still hazardous to it's membership. -
sammielee24
For b deserter, your comments are flawed about how far elders or the GB will go in the destruction of a person's life. Yes - they will go in and investigate your home. I know for a fact it's been done - with the help of family members - but still done. Fact - they will hide outside your house at night just to catch someone coming out or going in that they deem bad association. Fact - they will call you in the back room and tell you that your stubble must go!
For drew, when I am out and the issue of JW's come up - which is not all that often - I always use the term cult to describe them. That leads to dialogue for people who are surprised to hear what they think of as a religion as being described so. I then explain quite easily, the distinct reasons that I believe so and describe the damages done to people. In every case where this has been a non JW, the person goes away enlightened (the JW's knock on doors so they've done their share of enlightenment) and disgusted by the whole organization. I'll do what I can to keep those fires fuelled. The only people I have found it difficult to engage this dialogue in has been x-JW's. My brother in law is a fader, born and raised as a witness but who quietly drifted away 25 years ago - some part of him remains brainwashed still but I'm working on that .
Granted there are many different definitions of cult and the term bandied about in the USA in negativity, might be applied differently in different cultures, but no 'religion' wants the label of 'cult' in any way attached to it. In the case of Jehovahs Witnesses, their main message is that the world is due to end - in other words its a doomsday ....? All things you do today, all things you endure now, all decisions you are making like not going to school, not dancing, not listening to music, not getting married, not having kids, not voting, not taking a vacation, not saving for retirement..not, not, not. are all because Armageddon is coming in 6 months. The fear comes from the 'what if' that takes over a witness if he thinks about leaving because they have been so brainwashed - 'what if they are right and I leave and Armageddon does come and I am dead'...
The interesting thing about JW's is that they believe in Armageddon. They believe the time of the end is 'right around the corner'. They believe so much that in '75 thousands gave up everything so sit and wait for the end to come. Many of those alive today have never recovered - marriages they committed to because the end was here, pensions cashed in, jobs they quit, houses they sold - just some of the setbacks foisted upon a whole membership. If the GB were to issue a directive again, like in 75, it would happen all over again - now the interesting thing is that a doomsday cult will be described as a number of things that fit the society to a tee - the only thing they have in their favour is that they don't order their members to go out and committ acts of violence against the general population. They would if they could - and most certainly the callous disregard for the lives of their own members wether active, fading or disfellowshipped clearly shows that. All just my opinion though - sammieswife.
We define Doomsday/Destructive/Apocalyptic cults to be religiously based, very high intensity, controlling groups that have caused or are liable to cause loss of life among their membership or the general public
Listed under the 'other dangerous faith groups' -
Some religious groups recommend that their membership withhold medical treatment from their children, or themselves . The Jehovah's Witnesses suggest that their membership refuse blood transfusions. The Christian Science church suggests that their membership avoid medical help, and seek healing through prayer -- perhaps with the help of a Christian Science Practitioner. Although no hard data is available, it is likely that the avoidance of standard medical practices will cause some deaths among the membership. There is no reliable data on the disability and loss of life that is directly or indirectly caused by these and other anti-medical groups. However it seem obvious that the total is much greater for these groups than it is for doomsday, destructive cults.
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new boy
They are not a cult
They are not a cult
They are not a cult
They are not a cult
They are not a cult
Maybe they could be a cult
Please God...I hope they are not a cult.
Damn...They are a cult....How come everything always happens to me!
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Finally-Free
I've spoken to lawyers, politicians, medical and mental health professionals as well as reading the literature of "cult experts". The common concensus is that JWs are a cult. I'll go along with that opinion.
W
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Lady Lee
In over 20 years of working with people who were sexually, physically, and psychologically abused the hardest to deal with was the psychological abuse.
Psychological or emotional abuse is invisible.
It is easy to know you have been hit physically. It is easy to know what sexual abuse is. Once those are defined the actions are easy to recognize.
Psychological and emotional abuse are different. They were the last forms of abuse to be recognized as harmful in the understanding of various types of abuse. Spiritual abuse is the newest to be added to the list of invisible abuses.
When I was a kid they used to say "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" In reality it is the other way around. Calling a person names, minimizing a person's worth, preventing a person from using their intellectual abilities, controlling them with various forms of psychological controls is far more dangerous because of the difficulty to recognize what it really is.
The more subtle the abuse the harder it is for a person to see it as abuse.
And that is exactly why groups like the JWs can live in their own homes and work in the community and never realize just how much they are controlled.
Another aspect of this that is extremely powerful is that JWs are taught to monitor their own thoughts, feelings and behavior. While they are encouraged to go to the elders if they see another JW breaking the rules (everything from buying a lotto ticket to having sex outside of marriage) the stronger control is internal. JWs will turn themselves in to the elders when they have broken the rules.
Don't fall into the trap that the WTS wants you to believe that living in closed communities is a mark of a cult.
There have been many examples of people who were being abused and had the opportunity to escape. But they didn't. The controls their captors had over them was stronger than the instinct to flee.
The mark of a true cult is that they can control you even when you are out in the rest of the world and you will still obey their rules.