There are several doctrinal explications in the WT literature about which the average JW is not aware. One that has always puzzled me is the definition that the Insight book gives to lying. It explains that lying does not mean to provide false information, but that it means to give wrong information to whoever has the right to know. Therefore, if you give wrong information to an individual who does not have the right to know such information, you are not lying. This is, of course, very interesting, because, based on such interpretation, the Governing Body may considered, and in fact it has done it, as shown by the UN scandal, that the average Witness does not have the right to know this or that. I have experienced that most witnesses do not think on the implications of this, or do not even know about it. What has your experience been on this issue?
Lying is okay
by Hiddenwindow 15 Replies latest jw friends
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wha happened?
To me, a lie is a lie. I'd rather be silent than to lie. Even if it meant my own death for the sake of a principal. I'd rather die as a proponent of an ideal or principal rather than a liar.
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Gopher
I grew up JW in the 1970's and heard about this a few times back then. The context was that the end was near, and JW's were going to be persecuted similar to what happened in Nazi Germany in the 1930's and 1940's, so we'd have to be prepared for "spiritual warfare". We should by no means tell the "enemies" (whoever they would be) any details about the organization. We were told it would be right to hide the truth from enemies of the organization.
I find the WTS explanation in the Aid and Insight books quite curious, because for all their claims to be Christian and honest, the WTS is quite dodgy about their definition of truthfulness and lying. This morally relativistic definition has served to let the elders and higher-ups in the Society decide who they want be honest with. Like you said this has led to lies and cover-ups at the highest levels of fhe organization. I've seen the attitude filter down through circuit overseers, presiding overseers and other elders -- who hide the truth when it would affect their position.
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Superfine Apostate
that "i'd rather die than lie" is complete bull... i'd rather live.
the problem with the witnesses is, that they proclaim that they got the truth(TM) and that lying is wrong but still lie. -
R.Crusoe
It is true to say that concealing information is something people do in exercising wisdom - for example you may deem it better not to reveal information to outsiders if you were on a jury or certain things to youngsters who do not need be aware of such things. In this respect this debate can become complex. Many mothers do not reveal to fathers the likelihood that their child may not be his. I was staggered by the statistics given for this! It means many men have given their lives unknowingly to a child that is not theirs and their devotion to a woman who misled them? If this ever got into legal channels who knows how many women would end up in prison due to the ruination of a mans whole life - though it must be said many men have to get used to being treated that way - disposable - whether in wartime, divorce, careers, or through wrongdoing! They take the lions share of all the anger/ sin in society in terms of long suffering, punishment or even death and get tarred with all kinds of derisory and derogatory labels whenever they moan about it - they've been brainwashed by mothers to shut up and be a man so the women can continue to lie, spout of and control things! IMHO of course.
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justhuman
Lie is okey to protect the 'truth'
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dawg
My dad sat on my couch 2 years ago and said "you wouldn't get in trouble if you questioned the GB"... I said that's good to hear, then why did Ray Franz get in trouble? He said, "you always take this too far" got mad and left... Lieing... plain and simple... will do anything to protect men he don't even know becasue in his mind, he's protecting God.
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tijkmo
the interesting thing about the wt definition is that lying is ok to protect others but not to save oneself...examples used include rahab lying about the spies...abraham lying about sarah being his wife etc.
when peter lied then he was condemned - albeit for about a month. and when david covered up he was given a right stern telling-off.
so the gb will argue that the cautious as serpents stance is the best one re the un situ...and obfuscation is the best policy re blood, child abuse, doctrinal change etc cause it would not be in the best interests of the r & f to know the truth. and in this they are absolutely correct.
but it doesn't make them right
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jaguarbass
Proverbs 29:11
[11] A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
Some bibles like the life application bible say "Only a fool tells all he knows" which to me is saying, it is all right to lie. This comes from the bible not the Wactower.
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WTWizard
What I find objectionable is when someone initiates the use of fraud to scam innocent people into joining an organization, and then use that power to control their lives or rip off their life savings. Jehovah's Witlesses do both.
Even more objectionable is when they make such a big deal about not lying, and then they go ahead and do it themselves. The leaders are not upfront with the members in important matters. To make a big deal against lying and then treat the members like that is an outrage.