Yet ANOTHER thread on ...Atheist/Theists... :-O :-O (page 3)

Merry Magdalene

Thank you for your kind remarks and always interesting observations, Hillary_Step. To be honest, I was just "this close" to boiling over and then chilling into a puddle of whine these last few days, and I had to pull back until I could get over myself. Your words here and on another thread have been soothing balm to wounds you probably didn't even know I had. I often must remind myself not to take things too personally, and to understand other viewpoints and look at things more objectively while not losing my own place. Most of the time, however, I like to challenge myself and so I like other people to challenge me too.

I understand your feelings about bashing, Black Pearl. Even so, I don't want anyone here to have to be too PC. I would rather people be free to say what they are thinking/feeling, however hurtful or horrible it might seem to me, because I think it is important for such things to be out in the open where they can be discussed. On a discussion board, a person can just leave a thread if they feel too ganged up on. In real life, of course, it can be a different matter.

Kudra.

Long live JWD, the sometimes UFC octagon, sometimes cozy coffee shop, new Alexandrian Library.

~Merry

mkr32208

I think people go through stages as they leave the Borg.

They are first in denial or apologist, they believe its the truth, they come on boards like this and argue that its all true.
Then they are pissed but still believe in Jehovah and Jesus, now they come on here and argue as apologist
Then they move off the Jehovah line and believe in God and Jesus or Jesus as god now they are "theist"
Then they believe in some sort of god or greater power... Now sometimes they argue as theist but sometimes not
Then they are "spiritual" but not specific... Now they ignore threads like this entirely
Then they become agnostic... Usually around this point they take a hiatus from the boards for a few months
Then they become atheist... Now they come back and argue AGAINST theist for a few months
Then they move on with their life and drop off the board or post less and a new crop comes along...

This isn't 100% of course but I would say it's at least 75% maybe higher!

justhuman

come on guys....

serotonin_wraith

Where I am, not very many people will take a religious person seriously if they start to be vocal about their beliefs. It's respected as long as it remains private, and if someone starts going on about Jesus it's seen as amusing more than good points to consider. Anyone in the UK who went door to door will know what I mean. So what's the harm in that? None. It's fine. And I'd like it to stay that way. It's more likely to stay that way if non believers aren't afraid to respond with reason to those who like to spread their faith around.

Personally, I don't care if anyone wants to try converting me in real life as it gives me the opportunity to get into a debate on the subject. But it does interfere in other areas. Faith schools, for example. The indoctrination/conversion of minds that are too young to know the counter arguments.

jgnat

So, why the problem with some Christians and not others? Why do some whine and snivel, claiming persecution and others do not?

I think you know the answer to that one, Hillary-step. Now, this problem is common with all people, not just Christians. It's a human failing. We've poked an unexplored spot in their psyche. They come out roaring as if they've been stung. To the weak, to challenge a soft spot is to challenge their very being. The underlying fear is that their beliefs could not stand under the pressure.

Where does my balance and my strength come from? I'm not afraid to look, to challenge, to question myself. If I look in to the abyss and find it empty, I'll say so. So, paradoxically, my lack of armour has toughened me up.

nvrgnbk

I think people go through stages as they leave the Borg.
They are first in denial or apologist, they believe its the truth, they come on boards like this and argue that its all true.
Then they are pissed but still believe in Jehovah and Jesus, now they come on here and argue as apologist
Then they move off the Jehovah line and believe in God and Jesus or Jesus as god now they are "theist"
Then they believe in some sort of god or greater power... Now sometimes they argue as theist but sometimes not
Then they are "spiritual" but not specific... Now they ignore threads like this entirely
Then they become agnostic... Usually around this point they take a hiatus from the boards for a few months
Then they become atheist... Now they come back and argue AGAINST theist for a few months
Then they move on with their life and drop off the board or post less and a new crop comes along...
This isn't 100% of course but I would say it's at least 75% maybe higher!

Yep.

But we can go through all the stages and retain our spirituality, even deepen it.

hillary_step

jgnat,

I think you know the answer to that one, Hillary-step. Now, this problem is common with all people, not just Christians. It's a human failing. We've poked an unexplored spot in their psyche. They come out roaring as if they've been stung. To the weak, to challenge a soft spot is to challenge their very being. The underlying fear is that their beliefs could not stand under the pressure.

Yes, the question was a rhetorical one of sorts, I do know the answer and so do you.

It is NOTHING to do with religion or belief as to why some cannot take a challenge against their faith, but all to do with emotional issues on their part. That is why some explode into a frenzy when they are taken to the wire and others are not.

The issue then, is nothing to do with athiesm against believers, but all to do as to whether we should allow the emotional sensibilities of those engaged in such debates to supercede the logic and facts of the moment. Never may that be!

As an example, I will note one poster a YEC, whose modus on most threads is to post his opinion with the confidence of Donald Trump but when this opinion is challenged, his only recourse is to either try to belittle the challenger or scoot out of the thread like a cat caught in a carwash. He NEVER attempts a rebuttal when presented with facts, then he bleats and whines when people call out his beliefs. Why should such a person be respected? Their intellectual dishonesty is beyond question.

The message one should send to such people is, if your faith cannot take it, or your brain cannot make it, keep away from such threads.

HS

startingover

Seratonin,

I only hope that thinking comes to my neighborhood soon.

VoidEater

So, why the problem with some Christians and not others?

There is a qualitative difference I've noticed outside the board that tends to show atheism as a better way to get along in society, as opposed to some Christians. This will perhaps inflame some sensibilities - and it certainly doesn't apply to some Christian faiths, or even to all individuals in a particular faith. But I don't see atheist groups picketing soldier funerals because America isn't following God's laws and therefore God is allowing our soldiers to be killed. I don't see atheist groups killing "abortion doctors". I don't see atheists proclaiming the World Trade Center was destroyed because America isn't following God's laws. I don't see atheists heading formal organizations being prosecuted for aiding child molestation.

On the whole, perhaps Christian and atheist groups are fine and dandy. But the atheists don't seem to have the same kind of fringe groups that want to interfere with other people's lives.

There seems to be something about fundamentalist religion that appeals to a certain kind of person, or causes some people to spin out.

jgnat

Hey, there are athiests who can't take the heat. I can think of two posters on this board who fit that category. I am severely disappointed in their failure to self-examine, since the foundation of an athiestic point of view, I would think, is reason. On what foundation does an unreasonable athiest hold his worldview?

The thiest poster, on the other hand, can always fall back on faith. There is no reason for why they believe, it's a miracle.

So why should a Christian poster even try to debate using reason? I believe strongly in speaking the language of the listener. That is, if a Christian wants to successfully debate an athiest, use the language of reason.

Similarly, if an athiest wants to reach a Christian, they should take the time to put their beliefs in religious context, chapter and verse. Both Paul and Jesus took the time to challenge long-held beliefs, and they used reason to do so. Take for example, the concept of a "higher law".

Yet ANOTHER thread on ...Atheist/Theists... :-O :-O

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