Leolaia
Their use use of the term "minister" for the JW laity is really speaking about their "door to door Bible education work" (one of the more absurd phrases they have been using lately).
The terminologies used within the group mean little in a legal setting IMO. The Watchtowers published statements on what defines a minister are so vague that they never could be shown to mean what the rest of the world would see as a "clergy".
JW's, ordainment, mandatory reporting, and culpability....
by avishai 18 Replies latest jw friends
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drew sagan
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drew sagan
Thanks for the quote Oracle
Such vague statements can be interpreted however you want to slice it. Remember that the WTS never has defined the term minister in a way that would suggest that every member shares the same amount of authority in the congregation.
All the WTS would have to do is show how their own "internal" language works and I think little confusion would be left, from a legal perspective.
It's all in how that state defines "clergy". I don't see anything the WTS has published that would make its members fall into that category. -
uwishufish
According to the American Heritage Dictionary; clergy The body of people ordained for religious service.
So according to this definition all ordained ministers are clergy.
How about it?
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Junction-Guy
I havent quite understood the concept of being "legally ordained" What does this actually mean in legal terms? How can someone be legally ordained by the government as a minister? Doesnt this put the governments hands into a matter of faith?
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avishai
I havent quite understood the concept of being "legally ordained" What does this actually mean in legal terms? How can someone be legally ordained by the government as a minister? Doesnt this put the governments hands into a matter of faith?
Kind of. But ministers (myself for one) also perform some legal functions such as weddings, which are also largely a matter of faith, but often having a civil, legal side as well, so....
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Junction-Guy
Well in order to be legally licensed to marry arent you required to be a member of a "legitimate" religion? Can someone who is not religious obtain one of these licenses too?
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Junction-Guy
Im gonna substitute the word "legitimate" for "recognized". This was an issue with the wedding chapels here in TN a few years back, there was a government investigation into them because they supposedly werent ordained members of "recognized" religions. I dont know what became of the situation, but those chapels are still there.
Anyway Amanda and I faced a dilemma when we got married in 1994. I couldnt get married in a Kingdom Hall (didnt want to either) couldnt get married in a church (even though I was open to the idea). We searched high and low for someone to marry us in Kentucky, and in that bible belt county the only option was for a county commisioner or the county Judge, or a preacher. We finally decided on a preacher and got married on my uncles patio.
There are very few atheists in that county, so I wonder how they get married too?
Can a secular person be licensed to marry? At that time the answer was "No", unless it was a county official.
These are just some points Im bringing up. -
horrible life
This minister question could be put to the test, by having a JW female, apply for a license to perform weddings. Perhaps one of our lurkers, who has nothing to lose, and no family to worry about, who would like to go out with a BANG, would be willing to put it to the test?
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POs Son
Ministers are not ordained or licensed by the civil authorities in the USA. In many jurisdictions, there is a "permit" or "license" to perform weddings which is applied for and generally not denied except for gross violation. (Applying under the Church of McDonalds).
Ministers or clergy are considered "valid" if they are the leader of their own church or religious society. In many cases, a business card, ID card, letter from the board of deacons or directors is all that is needed to demonstrate the capacity. In my home state, the minister need not demonstrate his credentials, rather simply submit the marriage papers after the ceremony. Additionally, weddings may be performed by a "Justice of the Peace", judge, and several other civil officers.
The difference between "ordination" and "licensed minister" are significant. Ordination is the calling one feels from god to act as a minister. Often this is confirmed by letters, a ceremony or similar outward demonstration of this calling. "Licensing" is an act performed by a church body to authorize an Ordained Minister to perform duties of the ministry in accordance with the church rules. For example, the Anglican Church can license a person to act as a Anglican minister, and may revoke that license as it sees fit. The person who was licensed may certainly continue to feel the calling of a minister long after a license is revoked, but may only act on his own, not as a representative of the Anglican Church.
As for titles, the government does not recognize specific titles, but rather examines the actual work of each person or position. Also, they only do this when absolutely necessary, as most legal entities will keep far away from interfering in religious activity. A court would simply look to see that baptized JWs do not take an active part in what is customarily considered a "minister's" duties, performing weddings, funerals, religious rites, teaching, leading, administration of church matters. We could just as easily name the elders "Grandest Poobah's of the Watchtower" and each member "Ordained Minister of the Watchtower" and it would not change either person's standing in the eye of the law.
Want to become an "ordained minister"? Visit www.ULChq.org The Universal Life Church will give you a legal ordination certificate for free. It can be a joke, or it can confirm your real desire to answer the calling. It may also be a quick way to skirt some legal regulation on weddings. Note also that in some states, any person may apply for a temporary license from the state as a "Commissioner of Marriage" or similar title to perform one wedding in a civil capacity. Further, in Maine and Florida, a Notary Public may legally solemnize marriage.