Faith by definition?

by wherehasmyhairgone 3 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  wherehasmyhairgone

  When i was a JW i never really thought about what faith is, i always had the Hebrew scripture and kinda recited it as my definition.

  Now faith is understood differently by JW then it is from other religions from what i have seen.

  The WT comment on the later verse of Heb

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  w919/15p.10par.6ExerciseFaithBasedonTruth***

  At Hebrews 11:1, the Greek word translated "evident demonstration" (e´leg·khos) conveys the idea of presenting evidence to demonstrate something, particularly something contrary to what appears to be the case. Positive or concrete evidence makes clear what previously went undiscerned, thereby refuting what only appeared to be the case. So in both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, faith is by no means "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." On the contrary, faith is based on truth.

  ok so the WT is saying faith is based on truth ? so how do they says what is true...

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  w919/15pp.10-11ExerciseFaithBasedonTruth***

  Based

  onBasicTruths

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  The apostle Paul stated a basic truth when he wrote that the Creator’s "invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that [opposers of truth] are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20) Yes, "the heavens are declaring the glory of God," and "the earth is full of [his] productions." (Psalm 19:1; 104:24) But what if a person is unwilling to consider the evidence? The psalmist David said: "The wicked one according to his superciliousness ["arrogant as he is," TheNewEnglishBible] makes no search; all his ideas are: ‘There is no God.’" (Psalm 10:4; 14:1) In part, faith is based on the fundamental truth that God exist

  So even though they are claiming faith is based on truth and is based on eviendence, it comes back to a needed default position of there

  a) being a God

  b) believing what the bible say

  right?

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  w919/15p.11par.8ExerciseFaithBasedonTruth***

  Jehovah does not simply exist; he is also trustworthy, and we can rely on his promises. He has said: "Surely just as I have figured, so it must occur; and just as I have counseled, that is what will come true." (Isaiah 14:24; 46:9, 10) These are not meaningless words. There is clear proof that hundreds of prophecies recorded in God’s Word have been fulfilled. With this enlightenment, those exercising faith are also able to discern the ongoing fulfillment of many other Bible prophecies. (Ephesians 1:18) For example, they are seeing the fulfillment of "the sign" of Jesus’ presence, including the accelerated preaching of the established Kingdom, as well as the foretold expansion of true worship. (Matthew 24:3-14; Isaiah 2:2-4; 60:8, 22) They know that soon the nations will cry "Peace and security!" and that shortly thereafter God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." (1 Thessalonians 5:3; Revelation 11:18) What a blessing to have faith based on prophetic truths!

  So obviously they don't included any WT prophecies as they have been wrong all the time since they started, so these seem to refer to the 'hundreds' of fulfilled prophecies in the bible?.. what exactly are those? we have no proof what so ever any prophecies were fulfilled in the bible as the events were record after it time, or at best there is open to argument that these events were record after.

  So what then is faith.

  I was surprised how much dancing around the issues the WT did on this subject, but from what i can see, on the basis you accept God exists, and you believe the bible is inspired of god, then you can have your faith with evidence, however to accept God as defined in the bible needs you to accept something to which their is no evidence, only the ability to assign things to the idea of a god...i.e

  The earth is here so God must have made it.... but that kinda of statement is a a statement of ignorance, as you are assuming God made the earth. and a clear argument for God not making the earth is a valid one.

  I would like some good defense for this position of faith, i am not wanting to argue with anyone, but i want to see if the WT definition is truly different from 'believe without evidence' because after scratching the surface it doesn't appear to be.
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  Narkissos

  You might be interested in this recent thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/144969/1.ashx
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  wherehasmyhairgone

  thanks for that,

  I read thru it , and don't want to start another thread as it has been discussed, but i still find the understanding of Heb, very disappointing,
• 

  hmike

  For what it's worth, I'll contribute what I think the Hebrews passage is saying.

  HEB 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (KJV)

  In Heb. 1:1, one's faith IS the proof or evidence that there is a God and a heavenly realm. In other words, one in possession of faith is in possession of something beyond this world.

  The Free Online Dictionary defines faith as

  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

  2.

  Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

  In the general sense, when we speak of believing something, we mean that we are accepting as true some piece of information that we do not have the kind of evidence or proof for that we would normally require to incorporate it into our picture of reality. When we have faith, it means we believe this information to be true

  We think of believing (and, therefore, having faith, since they come from the same word in Greek) as accepting some piece of information as true. Sometimes it's because new information fits with what we have already accepted. Other times, we may accept the information based on our trust of the source (expert, authority figure, someone with established reputation as trustworthy, etc.) Whatever the case, it's an intellectual process—it takes place in the brain. This can also be accompanied by emotion—believing something may produce an emotional reaction, at least initially. In fact, the emotions will create a stronger imprint. So, faith, in this sense, is purely mental, but it can produce an emotional reaction and it can affect our behavior as we adjust to conform (consciously or unconsciously) to the new reality. This kind of mental faith ebbs and flows, and can be modified with the acceptance of new information. There's no guaranteed permanence to it. You have to reinforce it and protect it.

  I see something else in this passage. If the passage was referring to this kind of faith, what kind of evidence is that? It's no different than any other kind of belief. All it shows is that the person is a normal, thinking human being. No, I think the faith referred to here is different. I think it's meant to refer to the faith that God gives through the Holy Spirit—a faith that is spiritual, not mental, or even emotional. That faith is a connection with God, and it is the ability to believe God for even incredible things, but it is not the result of human effort, brainwashing, positive thinking. To have that kind of faith—what I call the "faith of God" (re: preferred translation of Mark 11:22)—is the evidence this verse refers to. It's given by God through Christ, and is the evidence of what has been promised.

  You may or may not agree that the theology in this statement is true, but I think that is what the writer intended.