I say let's have a big party for OBVES on New Year's Eve for 2012. I know he won't want it turn to the next year, but I think collectively we can help him through this difficult time....
2012
by Vernon Williams 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Dagney
Can JC come? (Somehow, I think he'd be the life of the party.)
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Satanus
If only 2012 would shut obves up. But, it won't. Prediction guys and religions have brains like looping computer programs. They never stop spewing out the same crap, until they break.
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blueviceroy
http://www.december212012.com/articles/general_information/the_real_doomsday.htm
This is from a more scientific point of view although it is somewhat tall in it's telling.
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AK - Jeff
Prophets have always in history been a damned dime a dozen. We have a few on here even.
2012 will be significant, for some. Some will get married, some will die, some will become rich. But for most it will be just another year in an endless stream of such years. The WTS may use it to lay down smoke and hide the 2014 centenarian year in their prophecies. Nothing would surprise me with them.
Jeff
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sinis
2012 is not just Mayan, which by the way is a feat in itself - they projected 22,000 years into the past and projected 4,000 years into the future to arrive at the end of the long count and the beginning of a new age. Funny how the Navajo indians have the same beliefs and year in prophecy, as do the Sumerians, as do Egyptians.
What is also interesting about these and other cultures (greek, roman, etc.) is that they all believe that we are in the 5th age of men and that the next age is the age of enlightening, funny how man is not seen in this new age. The Sumers believed that the gods would come back in this year as do the Mayans - the also believe the gods would make themselves visible, or come in the direction of the southern horizon. What is also interesting is that they duplicate the constellation of orion. Makes you wonder...
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sinis
2012 is the "revised" and adjusted 1975 date for my chronology. That is, based upon better chronology, where 455 BCE becomes the 1st of Cyrus, the Exodus occurs in 1386 BCE rather than 1513 BCE as per the witnesses. The relative chronology in the Bible from the Exodus back to Adam is accurate, so basically 1975 is 127 years too early. 127 plus 1975 gives us 2102 for the potential 6000 years since creation. But 1975 was also considered significant chronologically since it was assumed that the 1000-year reign would have to begin no later than 6000 years after Adam's creation. However, when the millennium begins and when 6000 years since man's creation occurs is a "flexible" issue. Thus the 2102 date is adjusted by a few things for a more realistic potential millennium cut-off date. The suggested adjustments are:
JCannon,
6000 years of creation? Please explain how the Sumerians, which are carved in stone, can trace their ancestory back 450,000 with key ascension years being marked by astrological signs? What is even more amazing is that recent archeologists thought it was all bullshit, but when they input the data into astronomy software and went back 450,000 years, the celestial signs (comet, etc.) matched exactly for the years that they say certain kings came to power.
I think we have been on Earth far longer than 6000 years. Perhaps men has gone through 5 ages (gold, silver, bronze, copper, iron - iron being the last) and this is one big ass experiment by the gods. Funny how the same five ages correspond to the metals used in Daniels prophecy...
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Satanus
sinis
All that stuff you said, then..
' Makes you wonder...'
Yah, makes me wonder from where you got your info. Could you name the sources?
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Zico
"2011 and 2012 are showing up in everybody's chronology"
Everybody's?
The WTS will not set 2012 as a date for Armageddon, or any other date for that matter in the near future, it's still too near to 1975, still in too many people's memories. -
JCanon
Freyd:
Quote: "The relative chronology in the Bible from the Exodus back to Adam is accurate, so basically 1975 is 127 years too early." hmmm...so 1874 + 127 = 2001 Isn't that the year that......?
The little "problem" here is that the witness organization was to serve as the "temple in its right condition" organization, that is come into place after 2300 evenings and mornings representing the last 110 years of a "time, time, and half time" apostasy period ending in 1996 (bla, bla, bla...right). But this same temple organization was said to be corrupted by Satan from the very beginning. It was the field sown with fine seed after which the Devil sowed in weeds, so that the new blades of wheat came up with weeds. The decision was not to separate the two until the harvest time, "let them both grow together." SO, therefore, the witness organization on one hand would have rather profound truths, end up preaching the "good news" and sporting some dates, but at the same time they would end up with some false prophecies or some inaccurate applications.
What has now happened though, is dates like 1874 and 1914 remain Biblically relevant but for slightly different reasons than what the WTS originally claimed. So in effect, they ended up focussing on these critical dates but for some of the wrong reasons. But that suggests that God was still using them to focus on the chronology that was relevant even if it as not that accurate. That's why OBVES can't just be swept under the rug when he comes up with dating that focusses on Biblically correct dating. The same would apply to the WTS, the indirect reference has to be considered as a potential cryptic fulfillment/notification. Just in passing, for instance, 1874 is 120 years from 1994 so represents the 120-year generation of Noah. Per JIOR doctrine this is the time of the Biblical reference of "Michael stands up" (Daniel 1:1). That is, after sitting at the right hand of God and waiting all this time from the 1st century, he then stands up to begin the process leading to the second coming. That means identifying the "temple class", etc. getting the preaching work going, etc. OF course 1914 is still a legitimate date for the beginning of the "last generation" of 80 years (from 1914-1994) or 40 years from 1914-1954 to fulfill that "last generation" prophecy of Matthew. The last generation begins with a world war, so that qualifies 1914. It is not the end of the gentile times, however, which occurs in 1947, and it is not the date for the second coming which occurs 45 years after the end of the gentile times in 1992. We now, of course, have the VAT4956 confirmation of the original Babylonian chronology dating year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in 511 BCE which means the 1st of Cyrus falls in 455 BCE as the Bible indicates. So all is well. In the meantime there are lots of secret societies belonging to Christ out there, various factions of the JIOR and so their messages are going to cryptic. So anybody who is coming up with 2012 or 2011 has to be checked out. This Mayan calendar is a legitimate reference as well, since some of the events connected with Christ are astronomically relevant: "signs in the stars and sun and moon" could be a reference to astronomical coordination for God's dating plan, etc. So even though the WTS is apostate now, secret JIOR factions could be creating some focus on this date, regardless. It's sort of like a confirmation from all these cryptic sources that something significant would happen in connection with this date or prior to it. All we can do is watch as usual, but pretending its just another wrong date as if Armageddon will never coming or that the messiah didn't arrive in 1992 is not something someone who expects to survive Armageddon or who believes the Bible would want to do. So, if 2012 joins 1914 and 1874 as clouded but Biblically significant dating coming from them it's still paid attention to. This dating is showing up in too many different settings connected with the witnesses or XJWs. By the way, here's something new. The Bible often parallels references. The original "cut off" that began the "great tribulation" for the Jews was a 7-year period from 1940-1947. But these days were cut short after the prophesied two-thirds of the Jews had been exterminated by the fall of 1944. If the days will be cut short of the tribulation again, and 2012 is the year we expect the tribulation to be over by our best guesses then we could presume the "great tribulation" is another 7-year period, called "one hour" in the Bible (3-1/2 years is a "half hour" per Revelation). In that case, the tribulation could be presumed to have begun 7 years earlier than 2012, meaning the fall of 2005. If this period has been cut in half then we would be looking at a date for the great tribulation potentially starting in the mid-week year of the 7-year period from 2005-2012. Here is a comparison chart showing how the "great tribulation" is paralleled by Christ's Passion. The "3 days and 3 nights" match the 2-1/2 years of "silence" after the Holocaust in the Spring of 1945 and the restoration of the Jews to Palestine afte Fall of 1947.