Was the CA expense ever justified to the elders?

by AK - Jeff 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Doubting Bro

  Exactly. At the most recent CA I attended (physically not mentally) the expenses were around 4k but 4k more went to the WWW & kingdom hall building fund. Interestingly, enough was collected on day 1 to cover the operating expenses but it was the contributions to Mother that resulted in the deficit. Also, the money sent to the WTS was more than at the previous CA (they were crazy enough to read last years stuff and I actually paid attention!)

  I think the business meetings varied from circuit to circuit. The one I was at the longest made the line item information available and read it at the meeting (large categories - operational expenses, CO expenses, DO expenses). Remember, the circuit pays for the COs housing (usually an apartment in a KH but still has utilities and a set amount per month for upkeep).

  Usually, those business meetings were attended by half the circuit elders and the object was to get out as quickly as possible. Read item, discussion (pause for about half a second), ok then do we have a motion to approve, "so moved", second?, "I second", all in favor? meeting dismissed.

  Edited to add: Just remembered that several years ago, the circuit elders decided to send a percentage of the surplus (I think maybe 90%, can't remember the details) to the WWW. They had done that historically and that really makes sense (save some for the circuit account and just give the rest to HQ). Well, apparently something changed one year when the assembly overseer told the elders that he was informed that was no longer acceptable and that the elders had to vote on the contribution to the WTS at the business meeting (held Sat lunch). Several objected (including the assembly overseer) saying that the expenses were being driven up unnecessarily. And, it was "suggested" that the circuit donate XX which I found out later was the amount per publisher that Sir82 mentioned. Who says the WTS doesn't tithe?
• 

  UnConfused

  Read this:

  As an elder I was speaking with another who was outraged that an elder had defied a CO. Here is what this other elder did.

  It was time for the CA report and the expensed WERE COVERED. The CO instructed him to say otherwise and the brother defied him and went up and read the number, thanked the brothers and sisters for their contributions and said any more for the day would go to the next assembly.

  The brother I was talking to relayed this to me as a "bad" thing - defying God's representative. I told him I admired the man and would have done the same thing.
• 

  Doubting Bro

  unconfused,

  How long did it take for that elder to get "removed"? I'll bet the next CO visit.

  Good for him. Another advantage is that he won't have to worry about giving CA/DC parts again!!
• 

  grassyknoll07

  The "books" are available to any elder that wishes to examine them. They are brought to each meeting. I've never been at a meeting where anyone looks at the them. As mentioned before, most of the expenses are a calculated on a per publisher amount. It's a facility "usage fee". Also, if there is a special guest speaker, his expenses are included. A new rule went into effect a few years ago. The lump sum WWW donation can't come from the donations received. It has to come from the circuit account and the amount is announced.
• 

  primitivegenius

  well ive been to several assemblys where they announced the costs, and how much money they had on hand and with the society............ and they always wanted more.

  later on you find out that they sent s***loads to the society as per the circuit resolution or some such nonsence............. i was like......... um...... when did i vote for that s***............... nah........ the elders meeting did. the more things they send money to the more money they can demand from the rank and file.

  unfortunately i always gave my donation the first day and said screw them for more............... but........... so much money i wasted damn it
• 

  WTWizard

  Here is the breakdown of the actual expenses: Out of every $10,000 they need maybe $2000 for actual expenses and $8000 to put in the Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund.
• 

  Seeker4

  I was the Accounts Overseer for a circuit for many years.
  
  Back when we rented schools, we had X number of expenses, rent, food etc.
  
  Generally, as I remember it, it went like this:
  
  You figured your expenses and income on THAT assembly, and you read the report based on figures that only went through Sunday morning. You did not include money that you had in the circuit account, and of course you wouldn't have the figures on the amount collected after noon on Sunday.
  
  For example, say you had $5000 in the circuit bank account. Expenses for the assembly, which you would know very accurately early in the weekend, most likely, say they came to $3000. Contributions and other income from the assembly (at the time it would be for sale of food) say by Sunday morning, would come to $2000.
  
  When you gave the accounts report, it would only be FOR THAT ASSEMBLY - so any money on hand at the beginning of the assembly, the $5000 in the circuit account,
  would NOT be included in the report. So you'd say that expenses for THAT assembly were $3000, which would usually include a gift to the WTS, and as of noon, contributions were $2000, leaving a $1000 deficit FOR THAT Assembly.
  
  Now with the noon and after session contributions, say you got another $2000 - so in the end, the assembly actually ended up $1000 in the black, AND that money say would go into the circuit's account, which would now total $6000. BUT, at the next assembly, again the report would not include that $6000. The report would cover only the expenses and income of that particular assembly.
  
  When we moved into an assembly hall, there was a per-head charge per publisher in the circuit, and things were handled a little differently. I was the assembly overseer then and not in accounts, and I can't remember exactly how it was done, but I think the circuit still maintained it's own bank account.
  
  S4
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Thanx for that first hand account S4.

  Of course when all is said and done, the drones are glad to send some nectar to the queen without thought. The world wide work was needed to get us to the Big A. Still waiting...........

  Jeff
• 

  Wordly Andre

  Not to change the subject but I just got a letter from my church that had Parish accounts and broke it down to repairs, priests wages, improvements, utilites, etc. it was a typical accounting sheet kind of like what I am used to seeing at work. I thought that was very open and honest of the church to let the parish know where the money went. I'd like to see the ORG do that.
• 

  inbyathread

  Several, several years ago in a land far off, I attended a CA when the food arrangement was still in operation. The cost of the assembly was like $4,000. One year later when the food arrangement was removed, I thought "Hey no more food to buy so the cost of the assembly should be less." Guess what? The same $4,000 if not more. Can't remember anymore. I asked a very good friend who had just been appointed elder and he had the pleasure of attending his first business meeting. Why the increase/continued high cost of the assembly when the cost of food should have been reduced. I could have heard a pin drop. He couldn't tell me. Not that he didn't know, he couldn't tell me in that he was afraid to spill the beans on the money racket. Should have been a red flag then but my blinders prevented me from seeing it.