American Class Structures. How Does That Work?

by bigmouth 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Canadians pretend we are a classless culture, but that is not true. I've read one author, Lawrence Hill, that suggests that our hidden bigotry is dishonest and in the long term, more damaging than the Americans. In practice this means that a visible minority may be turned down for a job or an apartment, but they won't be told the real reason. I firmly believe that a problem not acknowledged, cannot be cured.

    I once watched a Native couple make their way down a row of apartment buildings, checking on every vacancy. They were utterly defeated by the end of the block.

    I think the root of our bigotry is fear of poverty. We cannot imagine that we are like "them", so conveniently tuck them away as people a little less than ourselves. Like, who would want to admit that we are six months' of unemployment away from being in the same boat as they are?

    I've lived in places with pretty complex class structures, like Trinidad. Like in many third world countries, it's basically four-tier; blacks on the bottom, East Indians, poor and middle class whites, and the filthy rich.

    A visit to the United States was eye-opening. Like I say, the class divisions are less subtle than in Canada. I noted that communities tended to close themselves off. The dividing line that separated Harlem from the rest of Manhattan was an eye-opener for me. To think that there were white Americans who had never crossed that line, and vice versa, was inconcievable. For instance, our little band of white Canadians were utterly stared at in Spanish Harlem. We had a heck of a time getting the gypsy cabs to cross the line, and vice versa for the licensed Manhattan cabs to cross in to Harlem.

    I'd say in Canada, the lines are more subtle. And in Edmonton at least - blacks are not on the bottom - Natives are. If a white achieves extreme poverty and ruin, they will also hit rock bottom - "trailer trash". So I'd say the progression is Natives - Trailer Trash - Immigrants - Middle Class - Wealthy. Black people are enough of a minority to be considered something of a novelty. They are not necessarily treated badly. Of the immigrant stream, we have Filipino, Hispanics, African, East Indian, Middle Eastern, Asian, and Eastern European in that order of acceptance.

    There is also an inference that people on the bottom are ignorant and uneducated. To our credit, I'd say that people can rise above their raising with education and financial success. Though probably at some surprise from their peers. I think the upper and middle classes are guilty of assuming that privelege belongs them. My high achieving sister would often put her classmates in medical school in their place by telling stories of her family. These young students assumed that problems like mental illness, domestic abuse, and teen pregnancy happened to "other" people.

    Another example, my son-in-law, an immigrant from Rwanda, was teased mercilessly by his community for picking up recycleable pop cans. They told him he'd "Gone Native", a suggestion that there is a level lower than "immigrant".

  • CHILD
    CHILD

    I don't wish to say that not attending university=uneducated, but it sure limits one's ability to earn enough money to suuport oneself. Some people with a high school diploma or vocational training can do well for themselves. Others, like me, needed an university degree to train for a career. When I decided to return to school, a sister told me there will be no need for nurses in the new system. I told her there will be no need for a bunch of secretaries either.

    If one earns a low salary, one lives in a certain neighborhood and children attend a so-so school and the cycle pepetuates itself. This was one of my problems with the WTS. Lots of undereducated people who are struggling financially are being told college is less than desirable. For those born into working class families, this is dangerous. The American economy is such that one needs every advantage. There are too many thirty and forty somethings who wish they either ayyended college or earned a college degree as a young person.

  • CHILD
    CHILD

    Keep in mind the U.S. was once controlled by Britain. There were 13 British colonies. Our laws were beased on British laws and the society was based on British society. Slaves were at the bootom of the pile. The only way an African American can move the social structure is through education and hard work. By staying where one is, one never grows. One stagnates. That's dangerous. This is the weak link of American society.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    These days going to trade school can land you good paying job much more quickly than a degree can. Here we have a lot of people who are degreed, that do not work in their field. As for nursing, it's not really a career that is considered prestigious and that's a shame.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    America is a nation of immigrants. It is possible to buy your way through the class system if you have money.

    There are a few exceptions - in the South, old money may be the only way into the elite club.

    In theory, any person born in the USA who is over 35 may seek the presidency.

    Of course, the latter should be taken with a rather large grain of salt.

    The class system in Britain is very much alive in some quarters.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    how do you guys know if someone is your 'class'?

    Well, it's a million subtle things that combine together that give a pretty clear picture of one's social class...with Britain being the mother country, i can't imagine that it's that much different here than it is there. The way a person carries him or herself, the clothes they wear, etc.

    Accents and speech play a part. The city I live in is fairly urban and modern, but it is surrounded by typical small towns, and often the people from the small towns have a distinct Ohio accent "I'm goin' feeshing" (fishing), "I just trimmed up the booshes" (bushes) that you won't hear in the city, or they may employ certain phrases - "I seen" (I saw) - or have certain speech patterns that tend to give them a way, such as the tendency to never pronouce the g in words that end in -ing (I tend to do this myself, and I know that a thing as simple as this tends to lower my status in the eyes of the more cultured, educated people that I work with or encounter in my daily life).

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    When I was a child, my mother made us pay her for any poor grammar. Double negatives, prepositions at the end of a sentence, calling people "man" or using can when you should have said may, you had to pay her nickels. Mom said, "We are southerners and people will usually think we are uneducated or ignornant when they hear our accents. We need to use good grammar and diction to show them otherwise." And it is true that if you're southern, some people think it's fine and dandy to treat you like you are an idiot. When you do come across an otherwise intelligent person who thinks all southerners are idiots, it's really rather amusing. And sometimes I just don't care, I speak the way I heard people speak when I was growing up. I love to see the reactions.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    Mom said, "We are southerners and people will usually think we are uneducated or ignornant when they hear our accents. We need to use good grammar and diction to show them otherwise."

    There's a lot of truth in this.

    Bill Clinton is a perfect example of a person who speaks with an obvious southern accent, but is still considered to be intelligent and of noble class by northerners, and it's because he speaks clearly, uses good grammar, and doesn't drawwwlll out his words.

  • Mum
    Mum

    We do have a class system of sorts in the USA. It is not as rigid or well established as it is in the old world. It is difficult to describe, in part because the rules are not so clear cut, and it is subject to change without notice. We always have at least one group that it is okay to push around. African Americans were consistently in this category until the Civil Right movement in the 1960's. In Colonial America, add the Irish; in 19th-century America, add the Chinese; in the early 20th century, add immigrants from eastern and southern Europe. Today, it is immigrants from Mexico, particularly if they are illegal. In the area where I live, there are demonstrations from time to time supporting immigrant workers, without whom, IMHO, our town would not function. There is a higher than average populatiion of Native Americans here, too, and I see them being treated unfairly or spoken of in a derogatory manner at times. In contemporary American society, there is far less division based on race or ethnicity. It is mostly based on wealth and status. Sports figures and entertainers have more status than scientists and artists. Skill and knowledge take second place to wealth and fame (even notoriety). The good part about the changes that have taken place, mostly because of the Civil Rights Movement, is that we are more free to choose friends and associates without regard to race, creed, or national origin. There are those who would make it illegal for so-called "illegal immigrants" to have access to education or health care. There is snobbery about English versus Spanish. There has been proposed legislation to penalize anyone who hires or rents to "illegals." So, the more things change, the more they stay the same. At one time it was illegal to teach a black child to read; now it's "illegals" (translation: future citizens from Mexice for the most part). Side note: I am not one who rails about "illegals." My Scottish, German, and Irish ancestors on both sides of the family came to this country in the early 1700's. No one questioned their status, legal or not. All they had to do to become regular Americans once they got here was to kill any Indians who tried to get in their way. I know I have nothing to be self-righteous about when it comes to the American citizenship that is my fortunate heritage. Regards, SandraC

  • bigmouth
    bigmouth

    Would I be right in saying that Dr Phil is representative of a respectable southern gentleman. Even from NZ I can pick his accent!

    To jgnat, can you explain what the 'native' people are in Canada. I imagine it's the Indian or Innuit maybe.

    The more I read your comments I see the difficulties you have to deal with in society. Obviously it's not just black versus white but the legacy of prejudice taught from colonial times. Add to that the rapid influx of poor foreigners looking for work and being prepared to do anything that others wont.

    FHN, that's pretty sad about nurses. Our nurses here are not paid particularly well but they do have a lot of status.Sadly, many leave for overseas after graduating leaving us perpetually understaffed and overworked.

    Tradespeople are also highly valued. Plumbers, mechanics and builders. With the exception of IT people, the academics are kind of sniggered at as being a bit sad!

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