Book

bite me

I finally was able to order Crisis of Conscience.. Not at a bad price either. B&N was able to order and allow me to pick it up in about a week. No shipping cost! and my privacy will not be lost. Now I can pick it up and read it without anyone knowing. Hehe. So, my question is then, once I finish it, without trying throwing facts at people who will not listen, how can I at least hint ideas to get people to start questioning if they are in the real truth or not?

PoppyR

You'll love the book, It was the first one I ordered and I didn't take it all in the first time I read it.

As to your second question.. hmm, that one is so tough, and most here struggle with relatives, friends and immediate family still in. I think anything too direct will bring the barriers right up, get them to think and question if possible. Just ask a question and leave it hanging, such as "when I did some research on the fall of babylon, strangely I found out that ONLY Jws believe it happened in 607"

But it's a thankless task, many times you will get questioned straight away as to where you got your information!

All the best

Poppy

WTWizard

Trying to get through to witlesses is going to be just about impossible if they are at all serious about the religion. Why? Within the past year, they have cracked down on just about everything that smacks of independent sources. The statement that only Witlesses came up with the 607 date will do little more than reinforce their delusion about being the Truth.

They have ruled out the Internet last summer. They had the September 2007 Kingdumb Misery last fall about independent study of the Bible or using independent sources in Bible or Watchtower doctrine research. They sealed the crack about the news reports by telling the machines not to trust the media (hence no mass walkout when the pedophile situation hit NBC). They are programmed not to listen when people tell them that what they have is a false version of religion. Family members that are not active witlesses are supposedly Satan's tool to take the "truth" away from others. And they are programmed to reject religious material from any other source except the Witch Power Libel and Crap Society.

The only hope is that the people you are trying to get through to are weakening. That aside, don't count on anything to get through to them. They are programmed not to think on their own. For instance, I have seen threads on MySpace where people have posted pro-JW material, been attacked rationally with the actual truth, and continue to post pro-JW material, often rehashing specious or stock answers that were successfully dissected and rebutted (I know: I have rebutted a few. I just rebutted the stock Christmas argument about the man who hates birthdays and sees people giving presents to everyone but him supporting a birthday that's in all the litter-ature and still have had specious stock answers given). That is how hard headed the machines are programmed to be about having the religion exposed to them as bogus.

Gopher

Bite me --

I think it's good to keep the knowledge you'll gain from the book in mind. Whenever someone is doubting or questioning, you'll be ready to tell them the truth about "the truth". The Malawi/Mexico thing you'll read about is a good one, or even the two-thirds vote to overturn doctrine.

Those both are good examples of how the most important thing in the organization is power rather than truth.

I don't think you'll be able to get loyal JW's off-center however, most loyal ones would get even more firm in their stance upon hearing logical objections to the way their organization operates.

drew sagan

how can I at least hint ideas to get people to start questioning if they are in the real truth or not?

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing. Right after I read COC I began to drop little arguments from the book on people I knew. Looking back I have come to one major conclusion.

When a person first leaves the JWs they only really know one thing, that it's no longer the truth. That's it. Mostly everything we understood about history, scripture, biblicial studies, science, ect. was taught to us by the group, and thus tainted by it's ignorance. When we first leave we are in the position where we do not know what to believe.

Compare this to the one major argument that all JWs will use against anything that challenges the WTS. "Where else will I go?" As has been discussed in many a topic, this form of reasoning is totally bogus. One does not have to know where to go in order to comprehend that the place they are at the moment is not adventageous.

IMO one of the toughest ways to challenge a JW is when you yourself are/where one (if the JW doesn't know you where a JW that's differant). Looking back I only engaged and challenged other JWs when absolutely necessary. Other than that I stayed far away from it.

I've mentally been out of the group since 2005, the year I read COC. While COC is a great book, I have learned many other important things along the way. Take your time. I did and looking back can say that i'm glad i did.

bite me

Thank you for the imput on this. Now that I have the book in my hands maybe once i finish reading it, I too will be able to casually bring up the topics...as needed.

Nathan Natas

By the time you finish the book, the spirit of RayFranz will be moving over the surface of the waters in your bladder, and you will know what you need to do.

steve2

Who says you have to do anything about what you read? Hopefully you'll reach a place in which you don't automatically feel the need to urgently persuade others about anything. It's a healthy place to be. You'll soon see that the automatic urge to "spread" the "truth" is an over-learnt behaviour from the JW mindset.

It's refreshing to read and ponder something and not feel the anxious impulse to "save" others. You'll enjoy the book - it's a dose of compassionately grounded common sense.

What-A-Coincidence

BREAKING NEWS:

The WT has hired a company to implant 'tracking chip's in all of Ray Franz's books. Be afraid! Be very afraid!!! lol

bite me

lol they can find me I don't care. What are they going to do? Spread rumors of a true believer in the real Christ? I'l lbuy 6 more books! lol

Book

Share this