Comments on Science v Creationism (page 2)

Leolaia

I enjoyed part one very much and I look forward to part two.

Human arrogance refuses to accept two facts...1.Something has always existed. 2. There is an inherent intelligence greater than us behind the creation of the physical univerwse. Eveything else is subject to conjecture and speculation.

chappy

Dansk

Hello Chappy,

Human arrogance refuses to accept two facts...1.Something has always existed. 2. There is an inherent intelligence greater than us behind the creation of the physical univerwse. Eveything else is subject to conjecture and speculation.

I would be delighted if you could prove both 1) and 2) with empirical evidence. Believe me, I'm not trying to be an arrogant smart arse. I'd genuinely love to see your proof. Remember, faith and comments like "Just look at the beauty of the earth", and similar, are not proof. I've been searching virtually all my life and I favour evolution because science has provided the evidence that it is still happening today. In all sincerity, Ian

VoidEater

Human arrogance refuses to accept two facts...1.Something has always existed. 2. There is an inherent intelligence greater than us behind the creation of the physical univerwse. Eveything else is subject to conjecture and speculation.

Or there's a new definition of "fact"?

chappy

What kind of proof do you want? If some kind of spirit being "appeared" to you, showed you fantastic things and said he/she created the physical universe wouldn't you just conclude that "it" was some kind of alien pulling the wool over your eyes? The only way you can have proof is through your own mind. It requires an open mind, not the typicly religious closed one. But you HAVE to do it for yourself. The existance of a universal intelligence/Creator is easy to determine for YOURSELF if you have the humility to really just ask for the understanding. I enjoy sharing my personal faith/belief with others, but my faith/belief doesn't depend on my convincing everyone else that I'm right like so many people seem to. All I can tell you is to THINK and not just accept every "scientific" non-explination for existance and conciousness. Don't get me wrong-I love science. Science is making and has made descoveries at a fantastic rate and they're right about most of it. Ask science where the singularity that started it all came from however and all you get is dumb stares or "who knows". If that's good enough for you then well and good. It's not good enough for me. Where would you suggest one go to get an answer for that issue since science won't even touch it? Much of what religion has to say is actually correct. It just has a serious problem with arrogance itself plus the inability to explain what it's trying to say.

Hope that helps because no one else can do it for you...Hope I didn't ramble to much.

later,

chappy

worldtraveller

So if I believe in something that no one else can prove, it MUST be true because I believe it is so. Interesting.

chappy

Traveler, assuming you're married proove to me that you love your spouse. What I may or may not believe about you is irrevelent. Any attempt you could make by showing affection or providing things for your spouse may be evidential but not proof. Only you believe and know for a fact, and that fact is true, no? So traveler what do you believe?

later,

chappy

Caedes

Chappy,

Worldtravellers love for a significant other is not an extraordinary claim, I have no reason to doubt it if someone claims to love their partner.

Claims of a higher intelligence that created us is an extraordinary claim for which I need to see empirical proof. Until that is supplied I shall maintain my disbelief in all things supernatural and maintain my belief in ordinary claims of love.

I did read a study regarding the areas of the brain linked to feelings of love. Scientific understanding of a subject does not make the subject any less amazing.

chappy

I certainly wasn't doubting travelers feelings. I was just making the point that what is a fact to one individual cannot necessarily be proven empiricly to another. The point I was making in the previous post was that if anyone really wants to know if there is a Creator that no other person can proove it to them. Let's face it, there are really only two choices and one is just as "impossible" as the other. Matter, time and space coming from absolutly nothing or matter time and space from some form of intelligence who also originates from nothing. There's never been one snippit of scientific evidence of matter originating from nothing. So you can take on that particular leap of faith or take the other - it's all up to you. Just out of curiosity what made you take the first choice?

Just to make one matter clear, the Creator that I know isn't an asshole who condems people who don't believe in Him/Her. I think God prefers skeptical people who honestly seek the real truth at all cost, not dogmatic religious zealots. Learning and understanding of any kind comes at different times for different people At some time in the future everyone will know for sure, of that I'm certain.

chappy

Mr Ben

I invite your comments, questions, arguments etc on post 2 of my Science v Creation thread here.

To reiterate why I wanted to keep comments separate from the thread is essentially because I am wanting to make a post that can be used for a reference for the future for all users of this forum. I imagined that future newcomers would be asking the same questions about science and creationism and thought it would be helpful to all to be able to just point to the relevant part of the thread. It will be a long post even without any comments and I hoped to make it easier to read for future newcomers. I am not against comments or criticism, I actively invite them here, it is simply that I have not finished the main post yet, and I anticipate it will take several months. Or should I wait until I have finished each section and post them all at once, perhaps in a years time? As I expect to post at least 30 more sections the posting rules would not even allow that all in one go, so I rely on your goodwill and patience.

And no, this isn’t Ben’s Blog, as evidenced by my having no power to stop anyone disregarding my simple request about interrupting the post before it is finished.

The Science v Creation thread is found at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/148600/1.ashx

Thanks.

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