seems like i underwent pretty much the same procedure Awakened07 describes. for me the "canon" and "607" indeed were some very important issues. and i'm glad having read leolaias posts a few years ago.
The Steps Between JWism and Atheism
by compound complex 62 Replies latest jw friends
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nvrgnbk
Great topic, CoCo.
When I went back over my life, anything that was thought by myself to be Jehovah's doing actually had a natural explanation.
Comments about his blessing never squared up.
If I had enough work, it was thanks to him.
If I had alot of Bible Studies, it was thanks to him.
If there was a good "spirit" in the congregation, it was thanks to him.
If I had good interpersonal relationships, it was thanks to him.
If the preaching work "prospered", it was thanks to him.
I started to look for his intervention in the smallest of happenings.
It all came down to superstition, something we supposedly didn't believe in.
One day, while still an active JW, elder too, I saw through it.
It hit me that there was a natural reason for everything that happened.
As an elder, familiar with the lives of people that were all worshippers of Jehovah, I saw a trend in people's lives.
Good decisions over a period of time, lead to good results, no divine intervention there.
Bad decisions lead to problems. The problems weren't evidence of Jehovah withholding his blessing. Just consequences.
If I had enough work, it was thanks to him.
No. It was due to market conditions. When I advertise, I get more work. No angels, no Jehovah, just laws of economics.
If I had alot of Bible Studies, it was thanks to him.
No. It was because I was following the Watchtower's sales tactics. The more people you talk to, the greater chance of starting studies. If you genuinely care about people and you've been brainwashed to believe that what you're selling them will improve their lives now and for an eternity, it enhances your sales pitch. Nothing to do with God or angels. Just human factors affecting the outcome.
If there was a good "spirit" in the congregation, it was thanks to him.
No. If the elders were nice and took an interest in people, welcomed new ones, let the brothers be themselves, showed some trust in people, things were good. More people came. Publishers and new ones. If the elders were dictators and beat the brothers up with stupid rules and treated them like children, the "spirit" changed. No divine intervention there. Just human nature at work.
If I had good interpersonal relationships, it was thanks to him.
No. If I was kind and outgoing, people responded. If I was aloof and negative, I felt alone. Nothing to do with God.
If the preaching work "prospered", it was thanks to him.
No. That's a lie. If it's his blessing, how do we explain the growth experienced by other religions? The growth often occured amongst the poor and uneducated and immigrants, people that felt disenfranchised. "They're more appreciative of spiritual things" would be heard. No. They have nothing else, so the promise of living forever with social equality sounds pretty damn good.
As I was doubting one day, I prayed to Jehovah to give me mental clarity. I quit praying that he help me to believe in things that were hard to believe in. I prayed that I might see reality, for what it was.
That's the day I quit believing.
My prayer had been answered.
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itsallgoodnow
Everyone's journey out of the WTS is going to be different, and not every person becomes an atheist. In my case, once I (finally!) figured out JWs were lying all along, I had lots of questions about things, and unfortunately nobody to talk to about them. Or maybe that was a good thing. Because it was a daunting task to think I had to figure everything out without talking to anyone and without anyone in my family finding out what I was doing. I decided I didn't have to find out the answers to my questions immediately, that I had the rest of my life. I researched many ideas before I felt comfortable with the idea that there is probably not any God out there. Giving yourself time to figure things out gives you the freedom to let your questions, research, thoughts, and feelings flow naturally.
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worldtraveller
I have recently noticed that the JW individuals are obsessed with the fear of death. That's why they seem so intent on getting to the new world order. The problem is that they forget they are here and now. So I don't think that we exist to discover what is ahead-whether it be spiritual, or be atheisim. I think it's much more important that we live for today. No one really knows what is in store for tomorrow. I am at peace with my current exixtence. My JW bud is obsessed with his, and he seems very unhappy with himself, although he attempts a happy facade.
So put the bs aside. Enjoy your life. If someone else thinks different, don't analyze it to death. Get out and live. Enjoy the Holidays if you can.
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compound complex
So much to ponder!
Will ponder while painting today ... many, many thanks to all you dear people.
The Maltese "showed extraordinary human kindness," and, as far as I know - correct me if I'm wrong - they were not JWs!
Till later,
CoCo
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Seeker4
My process was very similar to those decribed by Awakened and nvrgnbk. And VERY nicely done by both of you, I must add.
I was still a true believer when I stepped down as an elder. That lasted for a year or so. Then the 1914 Generation change occured, and I decided it was time for me to investigate all the serious questions I had.
As was mentioned, this had nothing to do with being bitter about god, it was simply a quiet, thorough intellectual process. Like others have mentioned, I started with Genesis. Why? Simple. The Genesis stories are the basis for the rest of the Bible. No Adam, then no need for a Jesus. Christianity becomes little more than an OK philosophy if there is no need for a redeemer, and taoism did a much better job of creating a practical life philosophy without any of the religious overtones.
The evidence that there was no Adam, no Flood, no Ark, etc. etc. are simply overwhelming. It quickly became obvious that Genesis is mostly a book of myths. When I discovered that, I lost my faith in the Witnesses, in the Bible and I lost my belief in a god.
A big help was reading the works of philosopher Ken Wilber and his writings about the spiral of consciousness. He pointed out that some people will become dissatisfied with their religion, but simply move on to another. There is really no change of world view - they simply move on to a different version of the same level of consciousness, the same world view.
Others will have a much more profound experience. They will actually have a shift into an expanded worldview and will move higher up the spiral of consciousness.
That's what has happened to many former JWs who post here. It's also why none of us ever go back. We've moved to a wider world view, we've climbed to a higher level of consciousness, and there is simply no way of going back. It's like thinking a mature adult can revert back to a child's world view.
Can't happen.
I made that move even though I would really like for there to be a nice, benevolent big daddy or mommy in the sky who would care for me and help me out. There is just simply absolutely NO evidence for that. If he or she does show up, they really have some explaining to do! And, I'd be fine with that.
Those steps happened fairly quickly once I started examining the evidence.
That's why the WTS is so afraid of members getting a REAL education. There is an old saying, "A thinking Jehovah's Witness is soon an ex-Jehovah's Witness."
Yeah, the WTS is bleeding atheists!
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sweetstuff
When I was a wit I believed in God and was living in fear of what he would do to me if I wasn't "good enough". I dont' think it was ever a genuine love thing, more like a terrified child in front of an abusive parent.
When I left and really started reading the bible again with an open mind, I sat and thought, how could I buy this stuff for all those years? Oh yeah, I was brainwashed since birth, good answer. The more I read of the bible, the more ridiculous it became. The more convinced I became that I had been utterly stupified and duped royally.
I don't know exactly when the change came, but for a long time I really still believed in God, just not the god of the bible. Now I realize its more than likely I am clinging to that belief, in the hopes that there is something after death. I would consider myself an agnostic/borderline atheist. I am very open to the idea that god doesn't exist at all, yet I would like to think something created all we see around us and that some purpose drove the evolution of the world.
However, I know for certain what I don't believe. The bible. To me, its a book of fairy tales and bs. So many contridictions, errors and insanity within its pages, it amazes me that I read it all those years, yet blindly never stopped to REALLY read it. And if a God existed, he/she/it doesn't give two hoots about humanity and what we do, it would have much more likely planted a seed of life and moved on.
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Anti-Christ
I was an atheist at birth. I was then indoctrinated to believe in Jehovah. I had no choice in the matter, my mind was still forming and I trusted my parents.
I was actually thinking about that and I think I always kind of instinctively known that the bible was not legit. After finding out that the JW not the truth well that opened up a all new world for me to explore. After coming to the conclusion that the bible is not the word of god, well i guess I just, joined the dots. I doubt very much there is a god but if there is I don't think it's a very nice one.
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footstepfollower
6. research, logical arguments found in the internet, many sleepless nights and even some final prayers ultimately did the rest. there's just no reason to believe in any type of god/ess. and even if there was a god - there's no reason to believe that ANYONE (or any book) would know any more about it/her/him than myself.
Bingo that is the way I feel.
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Alpaca
CC, On a scale of 0 to 100%, with 0% being total faith/no doubt and 100% being total skepticism/atheist I am probably at about a 98%. I was raised by JW mother (custodial) and an atheist father (visitation). I spent most of my life believing the things the WTS taught and eventually became an elder. For me, the doubts were always percolating just below the surface, sometimes at a simmer and other times at slow boil. I always kept abreast of science issues and ultimately I just could not deny the scientific evidence for the age of life on earth. Eventually I realized that the WTS line that life on earth began just 28,000 years ago (based on counting using the 7 creative days) was pure fantasy. The doubts were no longer percolating – they were a roiling, unstoppable boil and I had to be true to myself and my mind and “TRUTH.” It was time to leave. It’s essentially incontrovertible that humans evolved just like every other species on earth. The need to believe in a god or gods is rooted in the ancient human need to explain things. There is a level of comfort in believing that there is a divine plan and that there is a life hereafter (whether it the JW version or some other version). When I yielded to the truth of how we got to be here it was downright scary to think that I (and everyone else) was on my own to figure out what life is all about. I went back to school and majored in geology, which confirmed my thoughts about life and humans as a species. Now, there is an indescribable sense of mental peace that has come from accepting the truth. My journey has gotten me to the 98% mark but as of yet I cannot get to 100% because it seems like there is something going on (a whole different subject) that we haven’t grasped. I don’t think that it is a single supreme being and, in fact, it might just be a vestigial need to “believe” that is based on criteria that may also yield to science. Nevertheless, the early part of the journey to agnosticism was very frightening but the longer I stayed on course the more comfortable I became with where I was going. I hope this helps. All the best to everyone on this board and happy Winter Solstice to All, Alpaca