The real facts about Islam

by Rex B13 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Norm

  Rex,

  You said:

  Norm,
  I am all for any moderating influence (no matter what form it takes), on those who practice extremism. You are a jew-hating bigot by the casual observance of your posts, make that a Judeo=Christian hating bigot. Isn't that following in the footsteps of the Nazi collaborators in your own country during WW2? Perhaps you carry on a "fanmily tradition"?
  Cheers,
  Rex

  Ah, so I was correct then, You either didn't read what Rushdie said or you didn't understand it. Are you able to substantiate your totally wild accusations here Rex. Is spouting such vile nonsense the only thing you know? Show me one single post with any proof that I hate Jew's and Christians, if not stop being such a blatant liar. Well, that last thing is probably too much to ask, you have to lie in order to exist in your dream world.

  When it comes to history you seem to be as ignorant as you are in everything else. I live in a nation where we were occupied by Nazi Germany, an occupation the population more or less actively resisted by carrying out sabotage and other types of resistance. That was called a fight for freedom back then, today a German occupying force would have called it "terrorism". Do you think you can understand that? Do you think you might learn anything from such a historic fact? Of course not.

  Norm
• 

  jelly

  Norm,

  A fight for freedom does not involve the targeting of civillian populations. It did not in norway in WWII and it does not when people fight for freedom now. The moral equivalancy you place between freedom fighters in WWII and the NY terrorist says alot about your outlook and perspective.

  Jelly
• 

  GWEEDO

  This is a link to an article by Salmon Rushdie, who knows more about Islam than all of us put together.

  No it aint. It's just a BBC commentary.

  I'd like to read his full article actually. Seems interesting.
• 

  Bridgette

  I enjoyed the link and the post regardless of Rex's religious or political stance.
  I'm interested in what we can constructively DO. So, I ask again, how can we, the average Joe Blow world citizen foster secularism in the middle east?
  Peace,
  Bridgette
• 

  Norm

  Jelly,

  As Rex was alluding to my alleged "hate" for Jews because I think the Palestinian are entitled to resist the occupying force of Israel. That was the only thing I alluded to with my example above. The suicide bombing, killing civilians inside Israel and the WTC incident can't be defended or justified by anyone including me.

  The occupying force in Palestine, do however kill Palestinian civilians, including children, every day. Somehow those civilian Palestinian lives seem to be far less worth that those civilian Jews and Americans that were killed. Can you explain why?

  When arabs hear President Bush talk about fighting terrorism "everywhere" they say, great, and then ask themselves, will this also include Israeli terrorism?

  I criticise and condemn the killing of civilians everywhere. It is equally wrong no matter who does it. As we can see, the muslim terrorists of Al Quaida killed civilians, the Israelis kill civilians, now the Americans kill civilians in Afghanistan.
  Palestinian and Aghanistani civilians are clearly expendable, "collateral damage". Dead Israelis and Americans are "tragedies". Why?

  Could you perhaps explain jelly?

  Norm
• 

  Bridgette

  Dear Norm,
  Can I pipe in? Thank you. Before 9/11 I was very against the displacement of the Palestinian people by Israel. I would use my vote when applicable to make this known. Since 9/11, I do not beleive I will use my vote to aid and foster people who beleive their voices can only be heard via extreme violence. It's not a matter of I think they are worth less. It's a matter of I am frightened of setting the precedence of: "if you want to get my attention, or I'm not responding to you in the manner or efficiency in which you wish, it's okay to bomb the shit out of me".
  I will continue to do what I can as a world citizen to aid political prisoners (including Palestinians--I still disagree with forced occupation and displacement of the Palestinian people) and foster peace and secularism mostly via Amnesty International.
  Any other suggestions?
  Peace,
  Bridgette
  p.s. I admit that I am woefully ignorant of middle east politics and goings on. Could you elaborate on how the Israeli occupation costs the lives of children? You're not the first source I've heard this from, so my curiosity is peaked. I cannot tolerate the death of one more innocent!!! Especially children! I am determined to educate myself and find out what the F*#CK has been going on over there, and why is the world pissed as hell at us? Our government tells us that the world is just jealous because we're rich. I don't buy that. I give the world citizen a little more credit than that! Besides, many of us are or at least have been poor, and work EXTREMELY hard. So, it's something more. and I want to know what. And I'm tired of the average muslim being demonized in our culture. We can't progress until we see each other as human.
• 

  Seeker

  Rex,

  So I am not allowed to post an article that says some things contrary to my previous statements? That's kind of odd coming from such a 'free speech' advocate. I now and forever have to post only articles that I completely agree with?

  Of course you are allowed to post whatever you want -- that's free speech. And I am allowed to point out your mistakes -- that's free speech too.

  I DID read the article.

  Then how could you miss the point? When Rushdie says, "Blame Islam," he has a context from which he is speaking. After all, he himself is a follower of Islam, and he is clearly not blaming himself, is he? He is trying to make a point, so he made a blunt statement to get that point across, with the subtleties underlying that statement understood and implied. When you make the same statement, it comes from Christian bigotry, as the rest of your hate-filled message shows.

  It is you who cannot seperate yourself from constant erroneous comparisons between Islam and Christainity. BTW, did you look into the section of the Koran that details the personal and public jihad?
  If you did, you will see that it varies greatly from, "love thy neighbor as thyself".

  Yes. And did you look into the sections of the Bible that detail God-ordered slaughter? Don't tell me Jesus did away with those sections, for every religion that wants to find justification for their actions will use whatever section of the Bible that suits them, just as you condemn all of Islam based on certain sections.

  Islam is just another cult, only bigger than most.

  It's not a cult, but the fact that you used that word shows your prejudice. If it is a cult, so is Christianity.

  If you would take off your 'politically correct' goggles

  I'm not politically correct. In fact, I hate political correctness.

  and remove your own blinders of liberalism

  I'm not a liberal either. Way to go, Rex!

  you might begin to see what this war is all about.

  Unlike you, I've been following that part of the world for years, and I'm well aware of what this police action (it's not a war) is all about.

  I repeat, Islam has as a central doctrine the forced conversion (by the followers, not God) of all humanity. They butchered millions of the original Parsi religious prophet, Zoaraster. They are FOLLOWING THEIR TEACHINGS FROM THEIR BOOK when they do so!

  ROFL! Change the word "Islam" to "Christianity", and "Parsi" to "Christian" and "Zoaraster" to "Jesus" and you have an accurate description of most of the Middle Ages. This is truly the pot calling the kettle black.

  Islam is not as old as Christianity. What Rushdie is hoping for is the same maturing process of the more extreme elements of Islam into a more mainstream version that can co-exist with the rest of us. Just like Christianity evolved....
• 

  Rex B13

  Forget it Seeker,
  You seem intent on critisizing me personally instead of taking the article and discussing Islam and Rushdie's slant. I've already exposed your ignorance and intentional slander of Christianity numerous times yet you continue to compare apples and oranges. People like you and Norm are on my case, personally, no matter what I post.
  I'm done with you both.

  Thanks for recognizing my post for what it is, Bridgette.
  As you can see, I have some detractors who will not relent from berating me personally.
  Take a look at the results of history. Islam has always been about conquest by war. The crusades (that our religion haters here whine about) was partly a response against this. You too have noticed the lack of condemnation against terrorism by muslim countries. If you hear the average moderate muslim condemn the attacks by terrorists they always temper it with critisism of the U.S., Israel (which have both been bending over backwards to Palestinian desires).
  Their belief system is nothing like the Christian one. They have a corrupted version of Arabic Kingdom law made into a religion, which is itself modelled after a corrupted version of the Law Covenant.
  some of the bozos here continue to ignore the fact that Islam embraces destruction of all who stand against it, for whatever reason.
  Their religious clergy are threatened by several factors, Christian conversions are on the rise, modern influences are a big reason they hate us: it loosens the grip they have on the people. We (the U.S. & Christianity) are the biggest obstacle to their desire to convert the world to Islam and they know it.
  Add to that the hatred between muslims who are shiite (Iran is a big example) and the sunnis (Iraq, Saudi Arabia) with the wannabi sect being the most vicious and it is responsible for the virulent hatred of all things western, the cruelties against women. This cult is financed by the Saudis!!! Our supposed allies! Did you know that Kuwait kicked the wannabis out? Did you also know that in Iran there have been PRO-AMERICAN demonstrations by the younger adults and teens who are tired of the religious hegemony practiced by their own Mullahs?
  My detractors here refuse to recognize the very different teachings that our Lord left us with. They slander anyone who takes a firm, Biblical stand and for whatever reason it infuriates them. Keep your own viewpoint, whatever it may be and don't be a 'follower' like so many are.
  Take care,
  Rex
• 

  Rex B13

  I see you bros are sticking together on this one, eh Cygnus?

  >Is it just me or has WW gone absolutely completely loopy?

  That is about the best comment that can come out of you. It shows your true character.
  Cheers,
  Rex
• 

  Rex B13

  The ignorance of Norm:

  >The occupying force in Palestine, do however kill Palestinian civilians, including children, every day. Somehow those civilian Palestinian lives seem to be far less worth that those civilian Jews and Americans that were killed. Can you explain why?

  Why? How about the palestinian cowards intentionally hiding behind civilians, sending out children to attack Israeli soldiers? You ignore that fact which is all too frequent an occurance.
  Then they place their military in residential surroundings to make it sure that civilians will die when they get retalitated for car/truck bombs that maim and kill. The Taliban do the same thing with their own people being the victims. Osama would rather hide in a cave than fight like a man. He'd rather see EVERYONE in the country dead than go out and fight for his alleged, 'just cause'.
  He is also NOT an extremist in one sense, he is simply following the Koran to the literal letter of it's teachings. He can justify his actions, the other Muslims know this and that is a big reason they are so quiet.

  It's time for you to awaken from your socialist and anti-semite rhetoric. BTW, I also so not support the Jews with a blind eye. We should not refrain from condemnation of their acts of cruelty. At the same time, we do not live with the day to day chance of us or our families getting maimed or killed when we are just going about our daily lives.
  Rex