Watchtower says JW's can reach different conclusions & it's fine!!!

by Must obey! 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Nice point Blondie. The idea of the "conscience of others" rule has only pushed certain behaviors more underground. For the sake of piety and keeping peace, you couldn't admit that you watched certain TV shows, engage in certain bedroom practices (which have been discussed ad nauseam) or a lot of other things. How can you be honest yet not admit that there are behaviors you engage in but don't advertise "out of respect for more sensitive or weaker consciences"? I heard that all the time..

    Here's a doozy that allowed us elders to pretty much do what we wanted...

    ***

    w827/15p.25par.15BenefitingFromYourGod-givenConscience***

    15

    Was this ‘a matter of conscience’ for private decision? No. Even if an engaged couple’s consciences would permit something excessive or outrageous, the collective conscience of the elders could not be ignored. While not wanting to impose their personal tastes, they have at heart the peace, harmony and spirituality of the whole congregation. And they should be conscientiously aiding persons to ‘know how to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is a pillar and support of the truth.’—1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Corinthians 10:31.

    The context is what is permissible at Kingdom Hall weddings. This quote is used at MTS as ammo for elders who want to exert control. As you might guess, the collective conscience of an elder body can easily be controlled by a single elder or two.

    Like I said, they always leave themselves with an out, while providing crapola comments like this one to give the illusion that they have actual freedom.

  • Must obey!
    Must obey!

    Thanks for your comments & very interesting points. I totally agree that the Society often says one thing in print but in practice its a different story. It often seems to depend on how compassionate a certain body of elders is, or what the PO is like (staunch or kindly).

    What the Watchtower really needs is to have an article that doesn't only call for toleration of differences over "conscience" matters, but also calls for tolerance for differences in "interpretation" matters, with a question like this:

    Q13) Why need it not be disturbing that two Christians reach different INTERPRETATIONS?

    If the GB only relaxed their sphincter muscles a bit and let go on their stifling control over all interpretation, what a wonderful thing that would be. But it seems that will never happen in the foreseeable future and all the submissive, fearful fools who let the GB get away with this unabashed lordship over their minds only have themselves to blame for the organisation being so horrible. How sad.

    Merry xmas everyone!

  • freydi
    freydi

    Did anyone note how the first woman, "reflects on the serious Bible command.....", whereas the

    second woman "prayerfully consults" the wt. Seems like it ought to be the other way around.

    The message is nobody at the wt is inspired but you should have more reverence for what's in the

    the magazines than what's in the Bible. It's the same old same old. Give lip service to what the

    Bible says unless it agrees with wt management. And that's why jw's are no longer Bible Students.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    The actions of the two women are, in fact the same...they both abstain from what the WT calls false worship. The one goes into the church and stands erect when they bow for prayer, remains silent when they sing a hymn - pointedly takes no part in the service. Is that not worse than not attending as the other one does?

    If the attender took any part she would be "had up " for apostasy.

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    in the us elders have told us that we can be citizens, and do the ceremony. the only thingy is: we have to stand without reciting the words during the swearing in

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    If you believe that a group of people have authority over what you should believe you set your self up for mind control.

    Like most pointed out, it might work in writing but in practise if the rest of the cong. or the elders don't agree you must fold. I remember a wile back there was an article on celebrating birthdays. It was very ambiguous and it seem to imply that celebrating your birthday was a conscience matter. Well one of my friends who is a very devoted JW was very very confused she did not know what to believe. She ended going along with every body else and not celebrate.

  • freydi
    freydi

    http://www.governingbody.org/index.html

    I don't know how to post pictures here. So if anybody would like to, have at it.

  • V
    V

    Nice comments!

    Complete text of Watchtower article here.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    I think that a legalistic elder could very easily read a whole list of rules into these paragraphs. The first rule being that the only time an exception could possibly made in relation to the issue of attending church weddings would be when a non-believeing husband is wanting his JW wife to attend:

    "So you attended your workmate's wedding at the Catholic Church brother Smith?"

    "Yes, based on my own research I felt that this was a conscience matter".

    "Well, that's interesting. It's my understanding based on the publications from the Slave that the only situation in which a True Christian could, in good conscience, attend a church wedding is when a Sister attends with her unbelieving husband".

    Q11) Describe how one Christian wife might reason on whether to attend a church wedding, leading to what conclusion?

    11) Lois reflects on the serious Bible command, `Get out of Babylon the Great,' the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 18:2, 4) She once belonged to the church where the wedding is to take place and knows that during the ceremony all present will be asked to share in religious acts, such as prayer, singing, or religious gestures. She is determined to have no part in that and does not want even to be there and be under pressure to break her integrity. Lois respects her husband and wants to cooperate with him, her Scriptural head; yet, she does not want to compromise her Scriptural principles. (Acts 5:29) Hence, she tactfully explains to her mate that even if he chooses to be there, she personally cannot. She may mention that if she attended and refused to share in some act, it might cause him embarrassment, so in that sense her not attending might be best for him. Her decision leaves her with a clear conscience.

    Second rule: If the publisher attended a wedding at a church that they formally belonged to before converting to JWism, then they exercised poor judgment and are Spiritually Weak™.

    "So sister so-and-so, you went to the wedding at a Presbyterian church? Isn't that the church you attended before you became a Witness?"

    Q12) How might someone reason on and react to an invitation to a wedding in a church?

    12) Ruth faces virtually the same dilemma. She respects her husband, is resolved to be loyal to God, and is responsive to her Bible-trained conscience. After thinking about points such as the ones Lois considered, Ruth prayerfully consults "Questions From Readers" in The Watchtower of May 15, 2002. She remembers that the three Hebrews complied with a command to be where idolatry would occur, yet they kept their integrity by not sharing in an idolatrous act. (Daniel 3:15-18) She decides to accompany her husband but not to share in any religious deeds, and she is acting in harmony with her conscience. She tactfully but clearly explains to her husband what her conscience will permit her to do and what she cannot do. Ruth hopes that he will see the difference between true worship and false.-Acts 24:16.

    Third rule: If they do attend, JW's are not to enjoy or admire the ceremony in any way shape or form and the only reason for them to be there is to be silent advertisement for JWism.

    13) Does the fact that two Christians might reach different conclusions suggest that it makes no difference what a person does or that one of these two must have a weak conscience? No. In view of her past experience with the music and trappings of church ceremonies, Lois may sense that being present would be particularly dangerous for her. And her past interactions with her husband on religious issues may affect her conscience. So she is convinced that her decision is best for her.

    Note the phrase "May sense" - We all know what is really being said here.

  • mcsemike
    mcsemike

    Concerning the section "AllTimeJeff" quoted, I can't believe they are serious. The elders do NOT have anything at heart except to parrot the usual garbage that they've been taught by the CO at their meetings or in one of their "secret" letters.

    If the elders cared about the congregation, they would tell them all to quit this cult, and to FOLLOW THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOW TO SERVE GOD.

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