JW Baptism = more ammo for us ex-jw's

by KW13 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • KW13
    KW13

    Thought i'd supply some more ammo to those who aren't already aware of this and wish to speak to dubs and scare them half to death lol.

    JW's get baptized in everything (water, organization etc) except 'Holy Spirit'. Therefore their baptism does not allow them entry into the Kingdom of God by the Bibles own terms and Jesus own words.

    1 Corinthians 12:1-3 says;

    1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

    Take note of Verse 3, its important. It adds to the total sum of your arguement.

    John 3:1-8

    1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

    3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [ a ] "

    4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

    5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [ b ] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You [ c ] must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

    The chapter continues to say these are 'heavenly' things remember that also, it may add to your arguement regarding where people go when they die (ie; heaven or earth) but that is almost a seperate issue to what this is discussing.

    Basically it says here unless a man is born of spirit and water (or baptized) they cannot enter into the Kingdom meaning JW's wont make it into that arrangement as they dont do it.

    Look at this next Scripture - Luke 18:18-26;

    18 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

    19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' [ a ] "

    21 "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

    22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

    23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

    ------

    Again, notice where this man was hoping to enter? The Kingdom of God. The Condition placed on doing so was following Jesus and Being born again by Spirit. Witnesses most certainly are not 'born again' infact they hate it. Some Witnesses argue that the Kingdom of God is heavenly only, but not only does the Lords Prayer ask that Gods will be on earth as it is in heaven, but the Witnesses teach the 144,000 will co-rule with Christ. What will they be ruling if the Kingdom is ONLY in heaven (by JW Standards/Teaching)...hopefully this makes sense lol.

  • KW13
    KW13

    look...i posted this, you must reply or else

  • llbh
    llbh

    If you used the words born again to most JW's they would freak out never mind being born again

  • GetOverIt
    GetOverIt

    I'm definitely born again. I'll have to use that on a JW 'cause leaving them was truly a rebirth.

  • KW13
    KW13

    anymore takers, commentators? is this an acceptable arguement....worked for me but is it just 'one' dub.

  • edmond dantes
    edmond dantes

    For me the words "Jesus is Lord " puts the Witlesses in the devils camp because they do not confirm that fact and therefore do not have God's Holy Spirit .

    "Do not give false testimony" that's another commandment they have broken over and over again during their entire history.

    Plonkers the lot of them , they do not know the meaning of spiritual gifts. The only gift they are interested in is a monetary gift.

    The baptism of a Witless , well that is a load of nonsense because it's just a dedication to the Borg.

  • is there help out there
  • is there help out there
    is there help out there

    I came across on Frank J. Toth web site, Matthew 28:19 says baptism is to be in the name of the Father, Son and holy spirit, but the June 1, 1985 Watchtower magazine substitutes "spirit-directed organization" for "holy spirit."

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    How many questions did the Ethiopian eunuch have to answer?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The major WT inconsistency, imo, is requiring a water baptism which is labeled "Christian" (i.e., not "John's baptism") from the same people whom they deny the Eucharist. Especially from the Pauline perspective where both "sacraments" are basically symbolic of the same thing, namely union with Christ's death and resurrection (compare Romans 6 and 1 Corinthians 10--11). Cf. also Ephesians 4 where one baptism is linked with one hope (among other things).

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