Not sure if this is the case in most countries, but don't they get government money according to the number of members? I don't think they'll go after faders (in those countries) if it means a loss of money.
Will the WTS start taking a hardline towards all the ''faders'' in the org?
by RULES & REGULATIONS 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AllTimeJeff
Isn't "marking" a type of hardline?
Sure, isn't everything about JW's? But it is a symbolic gesture lacking teeth in the case of a fader. The marking talk cannot identify a person, only a particular behavior. If you want to look at it like this, then every week there is a reference to missing meetings is an article that marks a "fader".
What if a fader was known to have seen a couple of "R" rated movies. He was even seen at a theatre once. Maybe two elders visit the fader and feel that a warning talk should be given to not associate closely with those who are known to watch R rated movies. The talk is given, and let the gossip begin. In the mean time, the fader is at home, watching another R rated movie and laughing his ass off at JW's.
I don't think there is a likelihood that marking would be used against faders. It is used primarily for those actively questioning the beliefs in the congregation. If that is the chosen course of one who realizes that JW's are a fraud, they woudn't qualify as a fader anyway.
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ESTEE
I remember hearing a "local needs" talk years ago about checking our association even within the congregation. There are stronger ones and there are weaker ones. The question was asked, "Are you among the inner circle, or are you on the edges?" The counsel was to associate as much as possible with ones on the "inner circle."
To me, that was a talk filled with judgment of individuals within the congregation. We were supposed to be selective of our associations within the congregation, associating only with "approved" ones.
Sounds like "marking" was used even among members in good standing.
ESTEE
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david_10
It has always been my opinion that fading is the best way to leave the Organization. Sometimes you can do it------sometimes you can't. There can be a lot of variables involved, but if you don't have any powerful enemies and if you fade gradually, then you probably can get away with it.
My wife and I left 20 years ago and we've had no problems at all. I've known others, however, who have been hounded relentessly by the same elders that have left us alone. They're unpredictable and you're never sure what they will do.
So here is my checklist of Things You Have To Remember:
1. The Society has plainly stated their position concerning faders.
2. The local body of elders has the power to do whatever it sees fit, and a few surprisingly mean elders have too much time on their hands.
3. There is no expiration date.
I've known former witnesses who have been out for many years suddenly find themselves dealing with elders who are in a mood to clean house. You never know what to expect. But------ usually ------ fading is the best way to go.
David
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MissingLink
It would in theory be pretty easy for them to track down all of the honest faders. All they have to do is write a letter to all elders telling them that the next Shepherding Call to each publisher should include the question "Do you believe the WTS is god's direct chanel of communication?". Anyone who refuses to say YES could be DF for apostacy. No additional work necessary on the part of the elders except for filling out the DF paperwork.
Downside: Decreased numbers in the short run. Although riding on the "surplus" of 3% over last year - this might be a good time to cut off some dead wood.
Upside: Eliminate those who cause doubts in others. Perhaps less decreased numbers in the long run.
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WTWizard
I think the local hounders can do much more on an individual basis. It is too hard for the hounder-hounder to find and track every fader, since more of them are fading out. Book study conductors can track and hound all those within their book study, and witlesses that they used to appear close to can also assist.
What happens next depends on what does the most damage. A person with family in is going to be hurt by getting disfellowshipped, as will someone with a witless landlord and/or boss. That is because the hounders can throw that person in disarray by making them lose their jobs and/or homes as well as family members. So, they are going to play that card a lot when possible.
However, disfellowshipping someone that doesn't give a fxxx about others in the congregation or those who they succeeded in trimming all the good out of the lives of is not going to cause much problem. Such ones would merely be liberated, and are only fading to waste the hounders' time or because they didn't feel like writing a disassociation letter. Such ones are more likely to be set up where they will have no choices but to comply. If they can be set up with work or housing with witlesses, they will attempt that. But those for whom that didn't work will have to be forced back in to punish. Disfellowshipping these ones would not be a punishment, and they could continue apostasy online. But, if they were hosted by a family that is superstrong in the lie, they wouldn't get the opportunity to do apostasy or become inactive and blow off meetings.
I think some are in fact doing that now. However, with the disunity in the congregation and the variability of what works, there is going to still be lots of different experiences.
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Robert7
"Do you believe the WTS is god's direct chanel of communication?". Anyone who refuses to say YES could be DF for apostacy.
It's ironic, because I'm a relatively new fader, and I have a Shepherding Call next week! If they ask me this question, I think I will have to fake it and say yes. It's not my character to lie (see, I'm still a good guy without The Truth, lol) but this is way better than the affects DFing will have on my family. Lesser of the evils I guess...
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owenfieldreams
I think they already have, if you read between the lines in some of the km and wt articles that have been written in recent times about association and meeting attendance. Also, with the move to limit access to wt study articles to active congregation members only by putting them in a separate magazine that is not distributed to the public, I think the ptb are trying to send a message to faders--"Get back to being active in the org, or we're cutting you off." Also, look for more hot rhetoric to come from the travelling men in upcoming assemblies/d.c.'s on the subject and more scare tactics. This organization, especially in the US, is bleeding active members just about everywhere and most of them are just people that would be classified as 'faders', and not ones that have been put out by df'ing.
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flipper
ROBERT 7- Hey man , good for you you did what you did to keep associating with your family . You know how you really feel about the organization , that is what counts . I had to do the same thing myself, doesn't mean I think the organization is God's organization !
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dogisgod
When are they going to start door to door with the message "You wouldn't listen and now you are going to die".