HOW MANY BEETLES WERE THERE ON NOAH'S ARK? (page 4)

badboy

THE LATER ASSUMES 7 PAIRS OF BEETLES.WRONG AGAIN!

hooberus

THE LATER ASSUMES 7 PAIRS OF BEETLES.WRONG AGAIN!

Please provide your math.

jayhawk1

Who cares what number of species of beetle has to be produced each year?

The point is, it is improbable to the highest extreme that in 6000 years or however many years since the flood, that a set of beetles or a few sets of beetles made 350,000 different and distinct types of beetle. If anyone can make a case how this could happen, step forward and present your findings.

badboy

HOOBERUS,HERE HOW I DID THE MATHS.

NOAH'S LOOD HAPPENED ABOUT 4,000 YEARS AGO.

THERE ARE 350,000 0R ALTERNATIVELY 30 MILLION SPECIES.

LETS SAY THERE THERE WAS 1 PAIR OF BEETLES ON NOAH'S ARK,

DIVIDE 350,000 OR 30 MILLION BY 4000 YOU GET 87 OR 7,000 A YEAR.

WHATEVER WAY YOU DO IT,IT CAMES UP WITH IMPLAUSIBLE NUMBERS

marmot

There are way bigger problems with the biblical flood myth than just beetles. Chief among them is geographical distribution of species and the accompanying fossil records that show those species were there for a long time.

Did god cause all marsupials to traipse over to the middle east to get on an ark and then trek back to Australia after it was all said and done? What about Galapagos tortoises? Sloths?

Or how about the incredibly vast amount of geological evidence against a global flood. And let's not forget that the very laws of physics were supposedly altered 4,000 years ago when god "created" the rainbow by making water droplets refract light for the first time.

The flood story has more holes than a sieve.

hooberus

HOOBERUS,HERE HOW I DID THE MATHS.
NOAH'S LOOD HAPPENED ABOUT 4,000 YEARS AGO.
THERE ARE 350,000 0R ALTERNATIVELY 30 MILLION SPECIES.
LETS SAY THERE THERE WAS 1 PAIR OF BEETLES ON NOAH'S ARK,
DIVIDE 350,000 OR 30 MILLION BY 4000 YOU GET 87 OR 7,000 A YEAR.
WHATEVER WAY YOU DO IT,IT CAMES UP WITH IMPLAUSIBLE NUMBERS

First of all, no one claims anything like 30 million species of beetles, so beetle calculations based on that number (i.e. 7,000 species per year) are bogus.

Secondly, the number 87 per year (though based on a more realistic number of beetle species), also assumes only one pair on the ark and no survivors outside the ark. If only 100 species of beetles survived outside on floats, and on the ark, then the number of species per year drops to below 1 per group. Most importantly let us also not forget that all the species need not descend directly from the original surviving pairs (and could have also have come about from speciation events happening to their descendents, and their descendants descendants, etc, etc.),

flipper

BADBOY- From what I read- Noah kept hearing this annoying barking , he got pissed and said to his sons, " Shut those damned dogs up ! " Then the sons said, " Dad ! Those are bark beetles ! It's what they do ! " That's my little revelation ! But Oh! Yeah, John, Paul, George , and Ringo were there too ! LOL! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

jayhawk1

First of all, no one claims anything like 30 million species of beetles , so beetle calculations based on that number (i.e. 7,000 species per year) are bogus.

Can't argue with that.

Secondly, the number 87 per year (though based on a more realistic number of beetle species), also assumes only one pair on the ark and no survivors outside the ark. If only 100 species of beetles survived outside on floats, and on the ark, then the number of species per year drops to below 1 per group.

If you read the Biblical account, it says in so many words that all living things was destroyed. So we must take God, a being that can't lie, at his word.

Most importantly let us also not forget that all the species need not descend directly from the original surviving pairs (and could have also have come about from speciation events happening to their descendents, and their descendants descendants, etc, etc.),

Again, according to the Bible, we are all descendants of Noah. That would also apply to the animals. In order to arrive at the variety of beetles, new species would need to happen more rapidly than the current scientific understanding of genetic mutation dictates. It appears that you are attempting to make the case that this could happen. What proof do you care to present? Or would you just prefer to pick on badboy's math without actually providing a counterpoint?

badboy

SO A NEW SPECIES CAME INTO EXISTANCE EVERY YEAR.

ISN'T THAT HYPER-EVOLUTION.

WHAT PROFF DO YOU HAVE FOR HYPER-EVOLUTION,HOOBERUS?

hooberus

Secondly, the number 87 per year (though based on a more realistic number of beetle species), also assumes only one pair on the ark and no survivors outside the ark. If only 100 species of beetles survived outside on floats, and on the ark, then the number of species per year drops to below 1 per group.
If you read the Biblical account, it says in so many words that all living things was destroyed. So we must take God, a being that can't lie, at his word.

see the links on my first post here.

Most importantly let us also not forget that all the species need not descend directly from the original surviving pairs (and could have also have come about from speciation events happening to their descendents, and their descendants descendants, etc, etc.),
Again, according to the Bible, we are all descendants of Noah. That would also apply to the animals. In order to arrive at the variety of beetles, new species would need to happen more rapidly than the current scientific understanding of genetic mutation dictates. It appears that you are attempting to make the case that this could happen. What proof do you care to present? Or would you just prefer to pick on badboy's math without actually providing a counterpoint?

The problem with this is that mutation is not the only potential source of variety. In fact much variety occurs through recombination of existing genes.

Encyclopedia Britanica (Macropaedia Knowledge in Depth Volume 18 p. 864.)

"An individual heterozygous at one locus (Aa) can produce two different kinds of sex cells, or gametes, one with each allele (A and a); an individual heterozygous at two loci (AaBb) can produce four kinds of gametes (AB, Ab, aB, and ab): an individual heterozygous at n loci can potentially produce 2n different gametes. Therefore, a typical human individual has the potential to produce 2 [to the 2,010th power], or approximately 10 [to the 605 power] (1 with 605 zeroes following), different kinds of gametes. But that number is much larger than the estimated number of atoms in the universe, 10 [to the76th power], which is trivial by comparison. It is clear, then, that every sex cell produced by a human being is genetically different from every other sex cell and, therefore, that no two persons who ever existed or will ever exist are likely to be genetically identical-with the exception of identical twins, which develop from a single fertilized ovum. The same concept applies to all organisms that reproduce sexually; every individual represents a unigue genetic configuration that will never be repeated again.This enormous reservoir of genetic variation in natural populations provides virtually unlimited opportunities for evolutionary change in response to the environmental constraints and the needs of the organisms."

Furthermore this type of change can happen rapidly as even talkorigns admits: "It is true that much microevolution selects from preexisting variation. In animals, that kind of microevolution occurs much faster than waiting for certain mutations to occur, so we often see artificial selection programs stall when they have selected among all the variation that was there to begin with." Of course evolutionists like to define evolution as essentially any amount of biological change by any means (including recombination of existing genes) in any direction (including degeneration) over any period of time (as long as its at least one generation). And technically by such vague, broad definition such changes could be classified as "evolutionary"; "rapid-evolution", etc. However, if one adopts a more relevant definition of evolution then such changes are not necessarily evolution- as no new genetic information is required [indeed it is usually lost], nor no new biochemical pathways, biological structures, vertical transformations, etc. see the links in my fist post.

HOW MANY BEETLES WERE THERE ON NOAH'S ARK?

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